00:00:00: Music.

00:00:10: Very welcome back to a new edition of bitch breathe I am your host ricardia Bramley.

00:00:16: So today I was thinking about a very important issue that I've.

00:00:22: Been dealing with and no other people to deal with for many many years and I want to first of all say that I'm going to be again speaking from a heteronormative perspective because that's the one I

00:00:33: mostly have my experience in but if you are in a different constellation even more I would love to hear from you as I only once dated a woman and for a longer period of time not really so maybe I can't speak from that perspective necessarily,

00:00:50: the other day I was talking to a friend of mine her relationship had recently ended and she was very very broken up about it and we spoke for hours and hours and while I was listening to her and trying to find the right words

00:01:05: sort of balancing my own issues around,

00:01:09: the whole idea of a relationship ending with what was going on with her and trying to disentangle the to because even though breakups and relationships have similar Dynamics sometimes.

00:01:19: In the end they are individual love stories so when my friend was talking I kept thinking.

00:01:26: Why is this so hard for her like why does she feel not just oh I'm sad the relationship is over but the word that kept coming up.

00:01:36: Was abandonment that she felt abandoned and I thought about this because the choice of words around big emotions.

00:01:44: I think is very telling you know she could have said I feel so sad or I feel so disappointed or I really thought this was going to go a different way.

00:01:53: Or maybe she feels like or we feel like we're not going to find another person like this whatever it is there's a certain kind of language that we will employ when a big deal is happening

00:02:05: and for her as is for me around The Break-Up it was abandonment.

00:02:12: And I noticed that it was triggering me keep in mind if a good friend family member is in a lot of grief or and big emotion it's not always easy to sort of.

00:02:22: Separate from them right so in that moment I.

00:02:26: For myself notice my own abandonment situations that I have experienced in the past were coming up and try as I might.

00:02:34: To feel for her,

00:02:36: but to divide her situation and mine it wasn't working so well so that of course told me okay there are still issues that I want to deal with and maybe speak about in my podcast today and.

00:02:51: I want to say that obviously I can only ever speak from my perspective which is predominantly

00:02:56: female even though I have a lot of masculine energy I did speak to male friends when they broke up or when they spoke about breakups that they've had in the past

00:03:06: hey so what is that like for you and sometimes they called me when it had just transpired and I noticed that their language was very different

00:03:14: they never got all fundamentally down on themselves starting to list their own shortcomings.

00:03:21: Or maybe relating this to a past of abandonment issues whereas with my female friends and including myself it often becomes as fundamentally abandoned,

00:03:32: state so I began to ask myself why

00:03:36: is that and why is there a difference and when I look at the different upbringings I wonder because we look at the different childhoods and the experiences and I wonder even when parents stayed even and happier childhoods,

00:03:50: and certainly in ones where both are one of the parents left women feel abandoned much more easily and resoundingly,

00:03:58: when a relationship ends or when not even the relationship ends but her partner tends to be much more independent or needs more free time or has a lot of hobbies that he then shares with other friends.

00:04:10: And even then even if it's not a relationship that's breaking up we often feel abandoned why and it's a question I've asked myself for.

00:04:19: Many years and more acutely of course when a breakup occurred because I thought my God why am I just so not just sad but I'm in a really scary place here,

00:04:30: I'm a feel like I've been cornered into a very dark room and nobody can get me out of here because nobody seems to feel the kind of depth mm of emotion that I'm currently experiencing,

00:04:41: apart from the fact that that is Major drama queen material maybe in some ways or in a more humorous context.

00:04:48: It also speaks to past trauma or unresolved issues.

00:04:53: So I thought well we just all collectively dramatize women and we all have baggage so once we're not 40 is is like yep that's right,

00:05:01: you say something wrong I'm going to feel like my inner child just got abandoned right I like to make you move this sometimes because I feel like my God are we really dealing with this again but yes we are so a few things

00:05:14: that I came up with when I thought about why indeed we as women respond to breakups or our partners needing more freedom and independence with this horrible feeling of abandonment.

00:05:27: The first thing I'm going to start off with because it comes up in so many sociological context and,

00:05:33: a lot of self-help gurus mentioned this I'm afraid even business and marketing Specialists they all talk about how we're hardwired for connection

00:05:40: now even though that is the case for all human beings for the entire species as women we're not just hardwired for it we're really really good at it,

00:05:51: we're good I connection we read people we sense what is going to happen before it will we anticipate emotions.

00:05:59: And then preemptively meet needs that haven't even been verbalize yet whether it's our children our partners our parents,

00:06:06: I once read this wonderful quote I can't remember who said it and they said that people Pleasers start as parent Pleasers.

00:06:14: And I thought that was very interesting in this context of Abandonment but more about that later so anyway because we're so good at connection.

00:06:23: We do it very easily.

00:06:25: We get attached way too easily and one of the reasons why I don't even want to get into the nature-nurture debate like have we been brought up to connect more easily or is that something that's put into our systems because that is what is expected.

00:06:40: I don't think it's necessarily,

00:06:42: crucial to investigate that particular aspect but what I think is interesting is to look at one little hormone that you've probably heard about and that puts us at a really big disadvantage which is that cuddly,

00:06:56: hormone oxytocin so.

00:06:59: As you've probably heard many times before when we engage physically with another partner it doesn't take too many rounds for us to start to imagine.

00:07:10: Or conjure up I want to say a relationship with this sexual partner because the oxytocin that's flowing clearly is a connecting,

00:07:19: hormone it makes us connect to this person I know from personal experience,

00:07:23: you put me in a situation where I'm having sex just a few times I can still kind of pull out sorry no pun intended but if it happens over a longer period of time

00:07:34: I'm going to start imagining a future with this person.

00:07:38: Knowing he's incompatible with me or she knowing that this is probably totally Fantastical Ah that's not going to stop me I'm going to try and go for it anyway.

00:07:48: And I think I want to blame this.

00:07:50: Partly on oxytocin so just understanding that we're both hardwired for connection even more than the male species I feel I'm just going to totally claim that and the other part is.

00:08:01: The hormones not that we're a hormonal mess I'm not trying to sort of cater to that whole stereotype but really truly oxytocin gets released,

00:08:10: if you've ever breastfed you baby you'll notice what it feels like so those things I just wanted to send ahead and something that happens maybe as a result of these two things.

00:08:21: Or maybe because of our upbringing I'm no psychologist keep in mind any kind of psychology I employ here total pop psychology and my own experience but I think,

00:08:30: we're relationship control freaks we ask ourselves and then this potential partner who maybe we've been meeting with or even sleeping with,

00:08:38: very quickly we,

00:08:40: where is this going like by week two were like is their perspective here and I love what Eckhart Tolle once said about this you really have to listen into his little podcast and segments that he does because he's quite funny actually it's not just this

00:08:53: Power of Now Guru he has a really really killer sense of humor and he says when somebody asks you that.

00:09:01: In a new relationship what you've on just gotten together a few you know weeks or so ago where is this going or I don't know where this going he said

00:09:09: well yeah you don't because that's all you have you don't have any future here yet because this is the now so yes you don't know now where this is going and nobody can answer for you,

00:09:22: where this is going and I thought how great how much freedom

00:09:26: is an understanding that if we stay in the moment if we stay in the now we really don't know where this is going and to maybe be able to sit with that,

00:09:37: to stay with the discomfort as we say in yoga not knowing to stay in this place of not knowing and I thought that was super helpful to really sort of pull back when we notice.

00:09:48: Especially in a new relationship you know you're meeting a lot there's this whole symbiotic energy maybe you're having all the sex

00:09:55: but it will create sometimes when you then leave this partner just for the day this sort of down feeling you like know

00:10:02: it's only been an hour but I'd really like to go back I'd like to go back to their apartment I'm like almost home sick for this person.

00:10:09: This new person then you already know you've entered the land of abandonment issues.

00:10:16: And to so keep coming back to you don't know where this is going and you don't have to.

00:10:23: Another Dynamic that I thought was interesting and this actually applies not just to our fear of Abandonment and our anxiety around that whole issue is the fact that we get distracted from ourselves,

00:10:38: and our purpose we as women now very easily

00:10:42: I've noticed this because I'm a mother and because I've been married twice so I've been in relationships for most of my adult life as you will have known if you've listened to the odd episode before this one so

00:10:54: whether I'm hardwired for it or not I'm always engaged I've always been engaged in relationships with people I've always had friends,

00:11:02: a good community of people around me and I like to take care of everybody because.

00:11:08: You know maybe that's just me but it makes me feel good that I take care of my mom I check out how my son is doing and if friends aren't doing well I'm sure to check in with them it's important to me.

00:11:19: But in the process of all of this being a good friend daughter mother I'm terribly distracted from being me.

00:11:28: From being ricardia from being that person behind the name ricardia behind this physical body and face.

00:11:36: Who's she and where the hell did she hang out all day every day because she does not show up when I'm constantly engaged with others.

00:11:47: And as women.

00:11:48: Because the cables in our brain seem to run that way we're constantly drawing from all these other people and I'm not saying we're good people or better people because of it because.

00:11:59: It's not entirely unselfishly motivated it makes me feel like a good person when I take care of other people that's a totally ego-driven motive if you will.

00:12:08: So that's not what I'm trying to get up but we do get distracted by other people awfully easily and would like the scatterbrained

00:12:15: people running around the place and it often even comes across like we don't know what we're doing right because we're always in several different places so to sort of understand that if we instead of flashing 20 flashlights at 20 different people or situation

00:12:30: to bundle the flashlight and make it the laser the power that we actually have and who we actually are.

00:12:39: And that brings me to my next point because of all this distraction we've lost our sense of power.

00:12:46: We don't even clearly know how to define it anymore sometimes and this is me talking in my 40s I think younger women.

00:12:53: And that whole new wave of feminism I think they're not dealing or I hope

00:12:58: I can't speak for you ladies I love to hear from you but I hope they're not dealing with this sense of lost power

00:13:04: as they grow older but me I definitely had it all the time and I certainly had it during a breakup so when I'm in that abandonment situation,

00:13:13: clearly I have given away power I am bleeding power,

00:13:18: whether it's for a good cause your mom yes your children whatever it is it doesn't matter it doesn't matter if you're spending it on frivolous stuff either it's about,

00:13:27: calling the power back to us about recognizing what that means and I remember in workshops people would women would often talk about.

00:13:36: Power numbers they were what does that mean what am I supposed to sit here now and Lotus position and just hang out until Buddha the says now young one you have power like what does it mean to rain the power back him.

00:13:48: It took me a moment to understand that and when it came to me it was when I was actually

00:13:53: quarantine just now do their pandemic because a family member had been diagnosed positive so now I was in quarantine and I had a lot of time on my hands I was working but there was nobody to meet I could call people on the phone but that gets old after a while as we all know,

00:14:10: in the pandemic now and I started to listen in without having to try and that is when I realized.

00:14:18: Dear God where did my writing go where did all my own thoughts go like when was the last time I heard my own voice this loudly,

00:14:26: and I tried to recapitulate and I couldn't I couldn't remember when I had last dug this deep,

00:14:32: and not filled bothered by it or not felt like I guess I should do this I guess I should meditate because that's when God is going to come visit you know that kind of feeling no it was just it was happening automatically and it felt so good.

00:14:45: It felt so so good and I

00:14:48: notice that I am able to pull back I don't have to take care of everyone and especially since I am in a romantic relationship also I was able to pull back from needing that to constantly be going on and have that attention rained on me all the time

00:15:01: no I don't need it because me I'm enough over here I'm not producing great things right now I'm not learning a new skill.

00:15:10: A new language just hanging out with me and turns out I'm not that boring turns out I'm quite interesting to talk to.

00:15:17: She says the narcissist Alter Ego says but I thought it was very interesting that as mothers especially to come back

00:15:25: to us get those two hours a day however you have to fight or pay for them in terms of money that is but trying to come back to that.

00:15:35: To regain a sense of power and in that context I was reminded of something a friend of mine said to me I was complaining that I sometimes.

00:15:45: Can't properly navigate the balance between proximity to my boyfriend and

00:15:51: being independent like if I spend a lot of time with him suddenly I'm like all over him not clingy although maybe we should probably bring him in for the next episode but like feeling like everything around him is very very important and she said to me ricardia.

00:16:05: Here's an exercise for you if all men were dead and you are not a lesbian what would you do.

00:16:12: And that sounds a little too simply like IG big Insight it is simple but it's not banal.

00:16:19: Because when she said that to me and she said it a couple of years ago to me and then again just a few months ago.

00:16:25: I began to somehow now I don't know you know how sometimes you hear something and you don't really pay attention to it but then another life phase suddenly.

00:16:34: What you heard or your hearing again is very meaningful and applicable to that life phase right now.

00:16:40: And I started to think about it a lot and I realize there's so much power here too.

00:16:45: What would we women do if they weren't here I'm talking about this not just in a romantic context I'm talking about business our career aspirations the way we raise our children and very importantly.

00:16:59: Are female friendships how would we cultivate and curate our lives and our relationships.

00:17:06: If men were no longer in the picture now guys if you're listening

00:17:09: I love you too much sometimes so please don't be offended but for us women to really sort of maybe go into this exercise and imagine fantasize what would you do every day,

00:17:21: would you make a coffee or three in the morning small things you don't have to change the world I mean dolphins need help but maybe that's not your cause.

00:17:28: And to look at that and see who you might be and what you might do.

00:17:33: And in that context like I mentioned to recharge with a powerful women in your life keep coming back to them.

00:17:40: That's who recharges me I love being around men and I love their physicality.

00:17:44: I love how they just like want to fix stuff from like you know come at this from like a very simplistic perspective sometimes and I love their thinking and in many many ways but if you ask me.

00:17:55: Who truly recharges my batteries it's always the women it always is because I don't have to explain too much and I certainly don't feel like I have to apologize and I see myself in them and I can see.

00:18:09: My full power because I look at them and I'm like damn you're smart.

00:18:13: You're accomplished you're a powerful and I know if this is my friend if this is my mother my sister and this is me too and.

00:18:22: A small little thing I know we talked about this a lot is to know your worth I think it was Socrates who said know thyself and I'm going to add to that to know your worth.

00:18:33: And to know that it is not defined by your relationship status so when you feel this abandonment situation going on and you're all alone and now maybe you know

00:18:42: you've even lost status I know that was it for me sometimes like now I didn't have a guy to back me up physically and emotionally I didn't feel as

00:18:51: worthy in society which is crazy I know I know a chains me to even admit it but you know hindsight's always 20/20 but to know that our worth is not.

00:19:01: Defined by our relationship status and so when we feel abandoned to know we're still worthy were still valuable and just because we feel alone doesn't make it true and very last lie.

00:19:13: Always about us.

00:19:16: I'm not saying to do away with relationships I'm going to be honest with you I prefer being in relationships but I also prefer to be free.

00:19:26: Rather than needy and thinking about this in a relationship when the relationship is over.

00:19:32: For if this person needs a lot of freedom and we feel abandoned then what helped me in my new relationship.

00:19:40: What's to keep saying to myself girl you've only known this guy for three months or six months or however long it is how could he possibly

00:19:49: be so important that you dig up all your abandonment issues from previous relationships or your childhood and make this whole thing and him,

00:19:59: that important or her.

00:20:01: How it's not possible because this person was nobody to you six months ago you didn't even know this person your destiny your career your self-worth had nothing to do with what is almost still a stranger.

00:20:15: And even if we've been with this person longer two years three years how much is that compared to the years we've spent before this person showed up.

00:20:25: And to keep understanding that yes this person is a valuable person it does make them necessarily bad because they left or we left them but to keep their importance in a sensible.

00:20:37: Proportion I want to say if we feel abandoned acutely and we're suffering so much from the end of this relationship or the fact that this person is going on a vacation for a week or going on a business trip and we're going to be alone for that week if we suffer a lot,

00:20:52: because of that there's something else going on is not about this person and we're going to have to use their absence to dig deeper.

00:21:01: And to not Tire of this I want to say archaeological undertaking of finding out digging up bone by bone what is going on here why is this making me suffer so much why does it seem so important.

00:21:16: And I want to leave you with a funny thing I had just started dating my bow for not such a long time and

00:21:23: I think it must have been week 2 or something why I said to him listen so I just need to know is this just about sex for you or like is this going anywhere like I just need to know because then I'm going to you know adjust my behavior accordingly,

00:21:37: and I thought to myself I cannot believe I just said that could I be any more controlling and he says to me with that dry sense of humor that he has well I kind of was keeping the marriage proposal for tomorrow.

00:21:49: And I thought that was really funny because my fear of Abandonment was kicking in in week two.

00:21:54: Two weeks before this dude was nobody to me like he was an acquaintance that I knew I couldn't have cared less if he wanted to move to Timbuktu or you know have 10 wives and fifty children it wouldn't have mattered but in week two.

00:22:07: My abandonment thing was already kicking in and that's when I knew I have to work on this.

00:22:12: So I'm very curious to hear about your situations whatever they are right now I hope you don't feel abandoned and if you do that maybe some of this.

00:22:22: Was helpful looking forward to the exchange with you thank you for commenting on the podcast please continue to do so wherever you get your podcast.

00:22:31: And I hope to hear from you.

00:22:33: Music.