00:00:00: Music.

00:00:11: Going to say bitch breathe but as you probably have heard through our social media channels we have changed things up a little bit so

00:00:19: it's no longer just me cuz I was getting a little lonely just talking about my own little thoughts in this universe so I have invited some of my

00:00:27: closest friends and Soul Sisters to join me on this format which is why bitch breathe wasn't cutting it anymore and we've renamed our podcast into me and the gals and these are my gals who are joining me very happy

00:00:41: happily I hope today from Sweden because they're both Swedish and if you like both if you want to introduce yourselves real quick again.

00:00:48: I'm really excited about this hi I'm Karina and as you said I'm Swedish and I'm in Sweden and yeah we've been friends for a long time Rick haven't we.

00:01:01: Yes so thrilled that I'm now officially a part of the polygon yes you the gal cycling we are really happy my name is Sophia.

00:01:10: Obviously also in Sweden and this is going to be so exciting.

00:01:16: I know I know and some of you have already listened have already heard Sophia and Karina speak and you've probably already noticed or

00:01:24: realize why I chose these gals to be with me because I think there's some of the most inspiring and authentic women

00:01:31: for human beings for that matter that I know so I'm really happy for you all to be here I'm fangirling all over you

00:01:40: yeah so today we're going to actually piggyback on an episode we already did before which was menopause and Karina and Sofia talked about it

00:01:50: they keep saying I'm in it I'm still the queen of denial So today we're going to talk about menopause at work something I can't speak too much too

00:01:59: but I know that the gals surely can so Karina Sofia there was one thing I was thinking about when I thought about our episode today and that was.

00:02:09: There's Oprah there's Hillary Clinton that's Arianna Huffington and like female leaders all over the world who are at an age where I can only assume

00:02:20: they must be going through menopause or they were at least going through it when their businesses their careers were really peaking even in some cases and I thought to myself how on Earth are these women doing this

00:02:33: like I have thought work-life balance with children whose bad I thought puberty was bad and here these women are having to go into very very public domains possibly experiencing a hut for hot flash at that moment work

00:02:47: what do you think about that what do you say I don't know what to say to be honest because it sucks

00:02:53: I think I think I think the answer is for Oprah and Hillary and Ariana it's the paycheck yeah you think money helps menopause is that what you're trying to tell me definitely.

00:03:08: No no to be honest yes that's very interesting question.

00:03:17: Yeah but I think that Oprah shared a lot of maybe the question is rather the answer is.

00:03:24: You need to share it you know you need to sort of talk about it and be open with about it.

00:03:30: Then again not all world leaders can I mean they don't all have forums but doing that I think Opera do.

00:03:39: You can just pick whatever subject.

00:03:42: Well right I mean Oprah just leads on all these kinds of new things but I'm wondering what if like a Hillary Clinton as you know she ran for president twice what if in the middle of a speech or something.

00:03:54: She's like I'm having a hot flash like what what are you supposed to do in that moment.

00:04:00: Take off all your clothes hey maybe she would have been president then I don't know.

00:04:06: I think that they have like special meds or something you think you might you know like a better block a or something.

00:04:15: Since we that a beta blocker what yes exactly if you start Swedish now I can no longer participate okay this is a very good question

00:04:25: I find I mean I can only speak for my own own experience but I think that.

00:04:33: I mean there are some stuff that you you of course can.

00:04:38: Live with and work at work I mean being through menopause but there are some that you really can't.

00:04:46: Especially the hot flashes and the thing is that I think you are you haven't you have different experiences of them because I for instance when I got them I felt a bit.

00:04:58: How do you say but you're blushing no no like I was trying you know I felt like I was going to be sick oh you know.

00:05:07: Do you mean you felt nauseous a little bit just just a couple of seconds before and you think like oh

00:05:13: no am I gonna God does the nausea ever end pregnancy of ulation menopause yeah I just want to feel like I want to puke all day but it's not like this not like you you feel like you want to

00:05:26: puke but you feel like something is terribly tell ya you feel yeah it's like well what is going to happen now am I going to get a cold or do I had the flu or a mine OSHA sore I don't know and it takes about a couple of seconds

00:05:40: and then you realize because then the hot flash will come you know like a wave through you.

00:05:46: And I had two different ones one which was one you can just live with and yeah it's okay

00:05:55: then I had the one that I call that was mysterious yeah and then I have one that was called I called it sweating from your knees

00:06:05: yeah and you'll see this second wave hmm and when you have those from from the knees then

00:06:13: I only wish I'm I wasn't at work you know because then you really you have to take off your clothes

00:06:19: you have to say but let's say you are at work and though I think in your case many people will be

00:06:25: quite positively thrilled that you were about to do that let's say you're experiencing a hot flash and you're at work has this happened to you and

00:06:34: have there been other symptoms at work where you felt like yeah I want to say embarrassed but I don't want to put words in your mouth

00:06:41: but you see that's what it is it is embarrassing no you're not supposed to go be going through it.

00:06:48: Imagine you imagine that all the meetings we've been in with are all almost all the time men and you

00:06:55: I mean you don't mention it do you know I don't enter the meeting saying hi I'm Sofia I'm in menopause but I could be cool yeah maybe that would be awesome but I would I would totally do it

00:07:08: the I mean not so dramatic I would say if I got the hot flash saying that you know I mean you know one of those.

00:07:17: Yeah flushes so whatever me most of them must have wives so you think transparency even at work would.

00:07:27: Be a solution even let's say towards I'm going to put it in a very sort of in quotes polemic style towards old white men.

00:07:37: You're right they have wives they must know what we're talking about you but you see a lot of a lot of

00:07:43: our friends they don't talk about the menopause okay I'm being country yeah but it's nurse with a partner said no no some of them they don't even know that the take the hormone replacement I find that very.

00:07:57: Strength why don't they talk about it do you have an inkling I mean this is pure speculation now but I'm interested.

00:08:03: Because I think in a certain generation it is still connected to a feeling of.

00:08:09: Shame or a feeling of you're not supposed to but be it's so difficult for a man to.

00:08:15: Understand it I mean they can grasp I mean what do we really need them to understand or do we just need them to make room for us as we go through it because quite frankly I don't understand half of it.

00:08:26: How can they do not know when we can't understand but I if you if I can go back a bit

00:08:32: you said experiences at work the worst thing is not the hot flashes I have to correct myself

00:08:40: it's okay it's actually the brain fog because I can't look at the numbers anymore and I can't look

00:08:50: big chunks of texts or and I assume out very easily

00:08:56: if somebody's told me I can just see him mouth moving suffer Lala and I go like and they are and they ask me something and I go like.

00:09:05: What yes or I did say yeah yeah yeah it's very difficult to focus yeah no I also found the brain fog is difficult very difficult I think because.

00:09:17: So do you think you know having sort of integrated that these things do happen should there be allowances from women going through this like a day in the month

00:09:27: well a couple of them where they work from home or they just take a sick day without that beat coming out of their pay or is that actually going to add to the stigmatization of women being

00:09:37: too emotional too much physiological stuff going on to properly take on full leadership I worry about that like on the one hand yes full transparency.

00:09:46: But on the other other than going to say yep bunch of hormones it's that day of the month or those days of the month what do you think should they be allowed to I don't think so because it would be to sort of.

00:09:57: Put the woman aside for a bit like a I think it's better to work on the other side to say

00:10:04: let's talk more about it let's be more understanding with women on the workplace that this is happening what I mean overall do

00:10:12: yeah can we open the window kind of thing is there so yeah he's go home and visit.

00:10:17: So I see what you're saying so really having an integrative approach is what you're saying like being at work being allowed to perform my job

00:10:26: whilst being compromised by cell physiology but I think actually men can can stay home because they they are also in the in the menopause the male menopause but nobody talks about that either and it.

00:10:40: Please tell me about this one I don't know anything about male menopause.

00:10:45: The sign in the signs and the symptoms are that they are super grumpy and when they reach a certain age they get so grumpy.

00:10:53: And that's actually the male menopause so I think they could stay home also because grumpiness is the first.

00:11:06: The day when

00:11:07: a woman at a workplace gets her first hot flash should buy a cake and invite everybody to the coffee room and say hey let's celebrate I'm moving into something.

00:11:19: Different I'm moving into another stage in my life and I want you all to be welcome and get to know me.

00:11:26: That was an interesting approach what would that feel like.

00:11:29: To actually just turn it totally around as a hey this is something very positive what's happening to me it might be difficult because I'll be a new person.

00:11:37: Like a rite of passage you know how so many cultures for their teenagers when they're girls start bleeding they start the period or the boys start to become men whatever that.

00:11:48: However that gets done infested they take these children into groups and they properly transition them into adulthood so maybe we need acknowledgement and a transitional

00:12:01: celebration yeah that's interesting that you say so because you with the cape

00:12:08: of course I don't know if I want no I want champagne but yeah of course symbol yeah something that celebrating me under

00:12:17: I think I'm thinking of a handbag but I said exactly I was just going to say that the cake I think it's very sweet idea and.

00:12:29: My father he bought.

00:12:32: Mia Cake when I got my first period yeah then I tell you know me yeah he bought the cake he went to the shop and bought the cake and

00:12:44: came home and my mother was there and he said now let's celebrate that there are two women in the family hour if there were only more father's make that my God because he was he was at home

00:12:57: with me when it happened my mother wasn't so he didn't want to you know he didn't want it to be yeah it was very sweet.

00:13:07: I love that he doesn't sound seemed to have been nervous around my floors in you that there was just me yeah I super cool and he is very important again

00:13:18: I think we need to start like a like a menopause movement to change the whole thing around into something positive.

00:13:25: I think there's there's a little bit of that happening you know if I can just say from a very personal point of view as someone who apparently according to Sofia I'm right smack in the middle of Farrah menopause.

00:13:38: No one ever heard that I wonder.

00:13:42: Oh speaking of brain fog where was I going with this no but I wonder honestly I find

00:13:51: the whole idea and I wonder if this comes up for you at work you want to be professional you want to be able to perform an all these things but for me it also has to do with being in a position of leadership and with that ascertain

00:14:05: like it feels like I'm telling people I'm old now I know and that is my struggle I know that

00:14:11: but what about it what do you think I feel the same because.

00:14:16: Why I have this feeling of okay now I'm old oh no this is because I actually don't feel terrible subject but it's like menopause if you'd only connected to okay you're old now no good bye bye.

00:14:29: Kind of thing that's not familiar with so that's why we need more transparency I think be honest and you're in some sort of leader ship

00:14:39: position you

00:14:41: the older you get the better leader you will become because you will you know you have will have more knowledge about other people more knowledge about yourself so you should actually be able to embrace the whole fact that you are in menopause.

00:14:55: Because I'm can just forget about your periods you can forget about that in just.

00:15:01: Go you know and be yourself more maybe that's what it is the age of becoming yourself with good strong stomach but yeah so I Karina just to pick up on that thread there.

00:15:14: If we just became more transparent about it then we wouldn't have to worry about it also having all these.

00:15:20: Negative connotations of age and you know how they take old trains and put them on the Side Tracks like okay you're thank you because I also agree the older I get the less distracted I am easily by

00:15:34: you know new partners in my case they always distracted a new a new partner shows up I'm like okay bye

00:15:41: I'm out for a while and also like we don't have to raise small children anymore which is the biggest distraction of all

00:15:48: and we're not maybe so busy with what people think of us because we're just doing our own thing and hoping that authenticity will suffice.

00:15:57: How we lead so I think yeah I think there's still a lot of sort of.

00:16:03: As they say in Germany off Cleveland's right so sort of the explanatory work ahead of us but I was wondering something else can I because you know the three medusae Sofia it is menopause is not making me feel old

00:16:18: because I know that you know

00:16:21: I wasn't supposed to be in menopause because of my surgery I came into my post cool maybe 10 years

00:16:29: earlier than I should so I don't feel old and but but in that case in that sense but

00:16:37: Karina and her kids and her grandchildren they make me feel old so that that's that's the thing that makes me feel old but but not

00:16:49: it's like oh my God I'm the third generation now I am you know yeah I'm just I'm just skipping through to towards the grave.

00:17:00: But that goes together with what we once said I remember we had this conversation where we said we don't feel old but Society is throwing images back at us of what they expect who we are that we're like I'm sorry that doesn't go together

00:17:13: I've never been better like I've never known more what my body wants what I want sexually what I want in a partner what I want from work.

00:17:22: Right and but

00:17:23: societies time yet what if it's too late lady I don't think really beckon don't know I don't agree you think the society tells gives you this picture of you yes of keeping out of you because you're so young.

00:17:36: No I mean not so much the age but when I asked yeah yeah maybe but I have not you know I don't know but I think that of course I know that people would say.

00:17:49: What is she talking about but I know it's difficult for women to get older in the society but.

00:17:55: Me personally I haven't experienced it except for.

00:18:01: Brain fog and I think that comes eventually anyway you know what I'm thinking I'm thinking right now as to say that it is.

00:18:11: A bit of that is actually one of the advantages of being an entrepreneur and working for yourself in your with me because.

00:18:20: Being being an employee where you have a lot of co-workers and.

00:18:28: People from all different kinds of end groups you are more sort of in Focus due to your age I think.

00:18:36: Women after 40 and Sweden are not I mean really hard to get a job after you say that all the time but I thought I'm sorry that I'm in here I think that's changing at least in Germany I mean I'm over 40.

00:18:49: We have a living example of a very good friend of ours

00:18:53: she got a job I recently had an advertising agency in she's I think 56 I think a lot is changing yeah

00:19:02: so listen we have to wrap up soon unfortunately I know we could always talk forever but I've got two more questions in the first one is.

00:19:11: From your experience how can we spot.

00:19:14: And support women experiencing menopause at work what are some of the things that we could do to actively help them out.

00:19:22: In that situation excuse me but how do you mean with spot you mean hot like how do we sometimes like you said women aren't going to talk about it.

00:19:32: But there's something going on and is it then helpful to say listen I think I might know what's going on right now the fact that you can't remember your presentation.

00:19:42: Let me just tell you to take a few breaths or whatever it is like how do we how do we spot them but more importantly how to support each other.

00:19:52: In front of men who are there in front of other coworkers.

00:19:55: What would be a smart way to do that without putting that person on the spot I was just thinking about it like how what if they help what if they also in

00:20:05: denial all that like somebody I know who is in denial I mean

00:20:15: if you kind of help try to help from the you try to you know give them support I'll smack you a exactly and.

00:20:27: Maybe they go hey I'm not in menopause what are you talking about I didn't even my whole presentation I I mean that's normal.

00:20:36: Okay so let's say she is not in denial like nobody we know.

00:20:43: How do we support them so do we just sort of take them aside after a meeting and be like hey

00:20:50: you know I know what you're going through or do we just sort of pretend it didn't happen that seems a very old-fashioned way to go from the four eggs I think that maybe maybe I would.

00:20:59: Do it a little bit different I would I wouldn't say you know hey I know what you're going through because I obviously I don't know what she's going through but I would say that you know I would refer to.

00:21:11: My own experience and say and say you know I know it's just horrible when you forget stuff like that and yeah yeah I do the same so that person would I mean

00:21:24: people who are not in menopause I think they will you know they listen to this and they probably say.

00:21:31: I mean what's the big deal if you forget something but it's it is actually very very disturbing because it's like big chunks of stuff.

00:21:40: You don't know where you be I don't know where I have been and where I'm going and I don't know.

00:21:46: You know you're here right now yeah I'm here yeah but you know I could easily if somebody was asking me you know maybe tomorrow and they would ask me did you record a podcast yesterday.

00:21:56: Yeah I think so.

00:21:59: Hmm I wouldn't remember which day or I think a good way is always to sort of refer to yourself and more on the situation or me me me to make them feel included you know

00:22:13: absolutely some people just look maybe I don't want to talk about it I don't know it doesn't feel tychy I guess hmm.

00:22:23: I don't know those people no I know okay so

00:22:29: lastly we're probably going to have to have yet another episode on this because I feel like there's so much to say and so much to explain for those who want to hear it

00:22:39: we're going to play my favorite game finish this sentence if you'd like so for each of you I want to

00:22:45: say finish this sentence menopause has taught me patience we're just going to say the same thing I was supposed to do.

00:22:54: You people are repulsive with your thinking about patients and.

00:23:02: Actually being in the now I love that because something because you have no right now but you know you have.

00:23:09: No other option I mean you have to be in the now it's Fourth when you're into this I love that that's a good finishing sentence so.

00:23:19: With menopause at work you just have to be in the know that sounds really really good all right girls well thanks again thank you so much for sharing your.

00:23:27: Music.