00:00:00: Hey everyone welcome back a new season with bitch breathe I am your host ricardia

00:00:06: so we're in season number 3 and episode 53

00:00:10: how better to celebrate this momentous occasion by having some of my favorite soul sisters and Wise Women join me in this all new episode,

00:00:20: where we talked about that scary little thing called menopause.

00:00:24: So if menopause is something that freaks you out or you just don't want to know a whole lot about it until that time comes we totally get you,

00:00:32: and maybe you don't want to listen to it but I do recommend you do because we have a whole lot of fun talking about this subject that quite frankly not a lot is being said about in terms of public

00:00:44: scenes or maybe some books but certainly not enough for us to

00:00:48: know about it so today I'm joined by Sophia and Karina to have a conversation and I look forward to sharing it with you let's Jump Right In.

00:00:58: Music.

00:01:10: Welcome back to a new episode of bitch breathe I am very very excited and a little bit giddy because,

00:01:16: for once I'm not by myself I am joined by my two favorite Soul Sisters,

00:01:22: who I don't know if we're going to be doing a lot of crying or laughing in this episode but one of those two things is probably going to happen I'm going to let them let them introduce themselves so,

00:01:32: go ahead oh my God recorded this is big yeah thank you for having us my name is Karina.

00:01:40: I was born in a small village up north in Sweden.

00:01:43: A place I left really early when I was maybe 20 s and I left to live abroad for many many years in South America and such and I have two kids

00:01:54: I have an old life living together with the man I am now married to Sofia,

00:02:00: which I love dearly we have a wonderful life together and we have an age difference I don't know if that is at all of interest to anybody to know I felt

00:02:12: that I wanted to say that I am 16 years older than you.

00:02:16: And sometimes that's a good thing as sometimes it's a pain in the neck so yeah.

00:02:24: I'll leave it to you Sofia okay yes I'm Sofia I am the one that's 16 years younger I am 46 so now they know your age I am creative director.

00:02:39: I was born in India but I'm a Swedish Citizen and I have also.

00:02:45: I lived in Berlin for a while so yeah I am.

00:02:51: I'm a dog lover you are yes for sure and golf lover and Virgo.

00:02:59: Oh that's right we'll probably get to zodiac signs later we have to Virgos in the room will leave it up to everybody to decide who's who anyway so I am here with Sophia and Karina today because we are going to talk about a subject that for some reason came up.

00:03:14: Multiple times I think right in our conversations and it's something I know nothing or very little about I didn't do what I normally like to do which is homework I didn't do research so we are going to talk about.

00:03:28: Here we go menopause fun subject it is isn't it these women have taught me so much not just about menopause by the way but that's our subject today but I do want to take a moment to thank them both for being here.

00:03:43: They are some of the most incredible Souls I've ever had the privilege of knowing and.

00:03:48: To call my friend and I'm just really happy you're both here that's so sweet of you thank you all right so I'll Jump Right In.

00:03:58: And feel free to answer whoever feels called to answer that particular question.

00:04:02: So one of the things as you know when I sometimes tell you I'm having this medical thing of that going on

00:04:08: and Sophia jumps I mean says it's perimenopause you're setting manifold and I was like get away from me I don't want to hear about it so I have some expectations that seemed to

00:04:18: resembled red and I just want to know did you have expectations what this time in your life would be like no,

00:04:25: I didn't at all since I'm so much younger and Karina,

00:04:31: got into menopause actually the second or third month we got to know each other I know.

00:04:37: It's got hot flash in certain so house.

00:04:45: I sure did I thought I was gonna die and you I never thought of it obviously because I was so much younger and did you you

00:04:55: even though it is strange you know how come my mother's never spoke to us about the I think my thank you did but she did you listen in no it doesn't pertain to you know you can see your daughter she's like yeah whatever they say that if.

00:05:09: The mother has a.

00:05:12: Hard menopause some tough menopause the daughter will also have a genetic component and me of course I don't know because I'm you know my biological mother is.

00:05:23: Not,

00:05:24: here so the expectation was one of actually being rather neutral towards this time my qualification came you didn't hear or I was actually thinking it's not going to happen to me,

00:05:35: I was like no no no it's not gonna happen it's like you,

00:05:39: it's like when you're young you know you keep thinking it your body will always remain the same and you will always be strong and beautiful and all that shit and you will definitely not go through menopause yeah so I was.

00:05:53: Shocked I think I was actually shocked yeah and I have had all the symptoms you can ever

00:05:59: come up with I've had them you know there are actually seven hundred of them can actually that's their 751 everyone symptoms so I think I had 700 no but to be honest I think that I have,

00:06:13: 50 of them at least yeah me too and tough ones maybe you wanted to talk a bit about

00:06:20: how come you're in menopause yeah but that's what I'm going to say that that's right you have to Coast yeah yeah yeah,

00:06:29: spooked me a lot because you said that all so horrible and you you were complaining that old yeah whatever I'm going to take that,

00:06:37: pain little bit later in my life right so I was to be honest a little bit

00:06:44: how do you say nonchalant about thinking I was crazy yeah I think how bad can it be come on you know but then all of a sudden I had to make.

00:06:55: A surgery that I had to take away the uterus including their ovaries yes.

00:07:05: So bam I was in menopause from one day to another and that was very very tough.

00:07:14: It was hard very tough because you had to transfer you know normally women have the transfer.

00:07:23: Transition yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and they promoted posts or whatever it's called yeah slowly slowly but I just you know went from one day.

00:07:33: Having all the hormones you were supposed to have and the next day no one.

00:07:39: So I actually really interesting you're both coming at this from a very different history it's being apart from all the personal history of girls but.

00:07:47: I'm Sofia actually if you want to hear a little bit more about what was that like to not have this preparation time,

00:07:53: and so what indeed were I was going to get to later but I feel like it fits now what were some of the symptoms were like Jesus I didn't see this coming at all but this is definitely a menopausal symptoms,

00:08:04: and that was maybe a little more difficult for you yeah I mean my doctor she said that you know you have to prepare yourself because you are going to get all the you know the hot flashes and so on and I said are you sure she said.

00:08:19: I'm sure and I was like okay now I thought you know a little bit of back my head

00:08:23: maybe I'm the medical examiner that it's not gonna be doing isn't that interesting you both thought it was yeah yeah you have had the symptoms for many years on it but,

00:08:38: I I think that my symptoms didn't come I mean they didn't come gradually like yours but.

00:08:46: The first symptom I had that I was in menopause e was the hot flashes and they were crazy.

00:08:55: And when we used to have a fan on you all the time yeah and I had I had my heart was racing.

00:09:03: So yeah that was that was the two first symptoms I had one day after.

00:09:09: The worst I remember was when I realized that I woke up every morning feeling I was going to die,

00:09:15: I'll physiologically I woke up thinking I woke up with the brain that was racing and I was like okay where's the emergency who's dying am I dying what can I do with theirs

00:09:26: nothing in my life is going to be okay and I have a I had all this problem I didn't actually have the problem I'm on my mind.

00:09:34: Was fucking me with me in a way and so it took me a long time to figure out what to do and the only thing you can do when you're in that state of mind is to just get up.

00:09:47: Just and that was really strange because we had really just met.

00:09:52: And I was like racing from bending the morning whoops I gotta get up yeah very hard and done it.

00:10:00: Took like a couple of hours before I was myself again kind of every morning every morning and I still have it yeah slightly catastrophe and.

00:10:10: You know nothing is ever going to be good again.

00:10:14: Yeah and then there was the hot flushes I had lots of five of them per hour I don't know how I found time to do anything else but sweat.

00:10:24: You couldn't you couldn't take the hormone replacement either well that was my situation cuz I had breast cancer in when was this 2008

00:10:35: and then you have no choice there is nothing there's no cure.

00:10:40: And I went to all these Medics you know asking them but you know if I do this so that no no just live with it bye-bye,

00:10:47: none of them were interested in helping you know,

00:10:51: does that pertain to like Western medicine and holistic medicine like just everyone was like what's wrong with it you tried everything I think I tried everything and I my doctor said that.

00:11:03: Some of them just laughed at me now but yeah you know and they were expectations were too high yeah this is Stephen women hmm even a lot of them nobody women.

00:11:17: They don't know anything about this they don't talk about it that there are no others

00:11:22: cure there is the whole problem of not enough women in research so I when I just want interesting for medical purposes exactly but my doctors who said that.

00:11:33: I asked you know can I can I do with a time before because I didn't want to take the hormone replacement first because you heard so much about it and but I.

00:11:43: But she said yeah but yeah but okay but there is nothing else that's going to help and I said but can't I do anything else.

00:11:51: She just sent me she was very how do you say - yeah yes and like.

00:11:59: There is nothing are you sure yes I'm sure there's nothing else,

00:12:03: so I started and then I took I kind of fooled myself a little bit bye okay I'm just going to take them for three months.

00:12:14: And then maybe I've built up a little bit of,

00:12:17: what you call it like a Storage storage yeah so I'm going to stop it and I started Grand.

00:12:25: I can set the clock when I do that because yeah takes two weeks and it's back again so and I did done this it.

00:12:34: The flat hot flashes and yeah and the problem with the hot flashes is not during the day because during the day the hot flashes they are okay.

00:12:45: I mean for me it's you you can't sleep.

00:12:48: That's the problem because you're sweating all the time yeah yeah basically see us when we were in the bed sometimes kind of funny actually yeah but I and it also has which is interesting.

00:13:01: Hey dolls when you get aroused.

00:13:04: When you're about to have sex yeah somehow the body triggers the hot flash yeah it's horrible so you have to stop and then you have to stop.

00:13:14: What yeah because it's yours

00:13:17: I just can't take the heat anymore you know if you've been in a really hot climate when it's like 45 degrees or something yes you can't breathe everything is like

00:13:26: boiling inside of your head and then it's not really the time to think about sex so then you have to stop and then you have to wait and then.

00:13:34: Start out of again you just want to be a good level of horny to do this yeah exactly yeah speaking of that yeah I don't know I don't know if it's changed that much for me,

00:13:49: I guess it has but I don't suffer the way you did.

00:13:55: You thought it was awful yes I thought it was awful it was awful for me.

00:13:59: Because I didn't I didn't take anything to sort of ameliorate the effects are clear.

00:14:05: So I was I was just forced to be in it all the symptoms were there and,

00:14:12: it takes you a while to sort of figure out all right this thing that has happened to me it's another symptom or it's it's connected to this.

00:14:21: How did you figure that out did you read about it oh I read tons about it's oh my God first you start thinking oh there must be something I can do you know step the Nobel Prize I could yeah I read so much about it fed up with it and now.

00:14:34: Gratefully I am on my way out of it so I don't have a lot of hot flashes anymore but I can honestly say that I have changed as a person.

00:14:45: I'm not the same person I was when I before the menopause so that's what it was going to be one of my questions is there's such a thing as returning to who we were before no I do not think so I'm sorry to say.

00:14:59: But I'm thinking maybe we would all our women we will become something else something better something that is more sort of.

00:15:08: I mean once you can.

00:15:10: Cut yourself loose from that sex or Sexual Energy because this is very much so about that your Sexual Energy your Sexual Energy goes down,

00:15:21: it goes really down and you have to start work for it because I mean you can't just stop having sex because 6 is something good but it start.

00:15:31: Crying no I'm just saying it's like I feel like I might has forecast now I'm thinking is it may be meant to be like that that we're not supposed to talk about it to our daughters because it's really depressing.

00:15:45: I have been really depressed about the fact that my libido is going down how do you handle that I mean I love Sofia more than everything.

00:15:53: And I want I want my libido to be there with me and it is still but in a very different way you have to sort of have sex in a different way,

00:16:03: you have to work a bit for it mmm it's almost like that and that is some sort of,

00:16:08: coaxing it out of you exactly it's not they're knocking on the door as it used to be which is could be good you know I'm thinking how the hell does all this heterosexual girls,

00:16:20: do it with a man.

00:16:22: Because you're drying up your eyes my mouth my vagina everything it is thanks Ryan except in that's what's happened that's exactly what's a Medicals about exactly causes a lot of shame in it we feel there's a

00:16:35: little portion of shame in this it's like we're not women anymore or where.

00:16:40: Not what we used to be or we don't have that power of Attraction anymore or what is it but do you really feel like that that we're not women anymore,

00:16:49: okay maybe it's different you both had children so maybe that's very connected you know the reproduction system.

00:16:58: Being a woman was inside activity exactly but yeah but you know since I don't have any kids and I never really planned to have kids I don't I don't feel that way and even though I'm you know I had no uterus anymore.

00:17:13: II don't feel less of a.

00:17:16: Woman I know my mother she did this surgery to hysterectomy yeah with or without the ovaries,

00:17:24: I don't know everything because yeah she had cancer so.

00:17:31: When was supposed to say no it's a holdfast you are saying that will children and you didn't identify obviously as strongly with the organs that.

00:17:40: No no no no not at all but I had so much problem.

00:17:49: With my uterus causing me so much pain because you had Endo right and oh yeah.

00:18:03: So that was has been causing me so much pain throughout my life and so much.

00:18:11: Actually that was a bit shameful for me because.

00:18:16: I couldn't join in you know when people go to picnic or you know it we're going on a boat ride or whatever it is and and people always thought that I was exaggerating you know because there were

00:18:26: believe me I have some close friends that went like so what you stare take a but isn't it yourself how women are like we're all about sort of,

00:18:38: I mean think about it when did we ever acknowledge that well if we count like men up and not menopause but like PMS so there goes one week

00:18:47: you're bleeding okay yeah you're ovulating for a few days and you're like yes that's right people I yeah this world and we often think that that's

00:18:55: normal to just continue our lives on all of those days as if nothing we're going yeah but you do I really I accepted the pain

00:19:02: seven days I think a month that I was kind of normal

00:19:06: kind of say that to a man yeah how many days do you have per month 0 because I know sometimes I do have these fantasies were like if I'm going to be born again I might want to come back me,

00:19:18: no we're not no I don't want,

00:19:20: you know to be honest I don't really to be honest I don't make some say we don't want to it's so interesting that is saying all these things yes which I plug in to scare all of this no but I was just going to say this that about

00:19:34: that's why I was relieved when they took it away yeah I was really really I was really becoming but if I knew.

00:19:43: That this menopause thing would happen so soon so intense because you you put your body in a kind of state of a shock when you when you,

00:19:55: do it like that because I had some anxiety attacks and so on and I could of course be without that and I got to be honest I don't know if I had to choose between the anxiety,

00:20:09: and the pain which is worse.

00:20:15: That seems like a tough choice question I do I don't know no but that was you know in Sweden we have an expression saying you know it's either.

00:20:28: Between a rock and a hard place so in terms of when you say you're not returning back to normal and clearly you're finding some very.

00:20:37: Definitive and.

00:20:40: Maybe inside the intimidating words around what you went through and what you might be still going through so if we're not going back to normal.

00:20:49: Where are we going whatever normal was right I think we're going to a better place some like Prince Charles what whatever love is he said well yeah Guyana whatever that place is yes yes yeah well,

00:21:03: I'm hoping it's a good place to be maybe it is the place where we are finally had time to.

00:21:11: Not deal so much with our bodies you know.

00:21:14: Maybe it's the time where we have not seven days a month but actually 30 days a month where we can be ourselves I mean the interesting thing is right.

00:21:22: You've just walked us through like a whole bunch of things where it's like oh my God that sounds really really tough but at the same time you're some of the most optimistic and productive,

00:21:33: and also in terms of married couples you're my like go to married couple in terms of Happiness so clearly you you are managing to come out,

00:21:43: on another side of this and I guess I'm wondering what that is but I don't know what it is but I also think that you know we are I mean since we're two women.

00:21:53: There is more yeah we can share we can but I hope it's so gray standing you know we have something that we call

00:22:00: the the complaining what we call it the rights yeah two minutes where you're allowed to yeah in Jerusalem.

00:22:09: The Wailing Wall yeah exactly do the worm boy I think it's the Wailing Wall yeah we do the hanging wall and it wasn't it goes like this,

00:22:17: I say to Carina when I feel totally down yeah I don't know what to do when I feel like shit yeah and I say to you okay tell me tell me what's bothering you it can be it can be shallow,

00:22:29: it also can be very deep it could be you know I broke my nail yesterday and I just had them done it see I mean it could be anything,

00:22:37: about two minutes and you're not allowed to say anything you just have to listen

00:22:41: I love that that sounds really healing yes it is because sometimes you just need to say it and hear yourself say it and then it goes away yeah so it's very good

00:22:53: would you know we do that quite often yeah it's good and then you realize the conversation about it the conversation is so important

00:23:01: because I know we've often talked about it and we talked about I know that the sharing bid is a huge.

00:23:07: Help to sort of come out of this the pain goes away a bit when you hear yourself talking about,

00:23:14: because most of the stuff you're worried about or I am worried that are often lying tiny things because I am so.

00:23:23: Afraid of getting old and yes.

00:23:27: And everything and you know it's no use being that if you married to somebody who's 16 years older they than you are because you go,

00:23:36: you young but it's it's so real for me and I don't get any response response whatsoever.

00:23:46: And we have a lot of our friends they are older than well the me older than you me so nobody listens to me.

00:23:58: You did and we had a nervous breakdown.

00:24:02: Both hands right both of us wasn't that that fella wasn't I remember this conversation I've ever ever had that's right we allowed each other to talk about just how scared we are,

00:24:17: of our own mortality yeah yes and I remember we both were careful about it at first you're like yes sir,

00:24:24: sometimes I got these fantasies your dirty little we already know everything about each other in terms of these this this other part of our lives but this was like so DT you also,

00:24:35: yeah that's a secret yes all the time.

00:24:41: I remember saying and then I cry and then already Sophia's like halfway there she's crying and then you say something about how you've been thinking about it lately,

00:24:52: but then there was a catharsis yes it's we're gonna lift it it's lifted and we cried and laughed at the same time,

00:25:01: that was actually not like crying oh I'm so happy crying

00:25:04: I cried because I was so scared it was a release yes it released and I also left because it was so.

00:25:13: I don't knows insane somehow I feel if somebody would have filmed us I don't know I mean we.

00:25:21: Or did it both podcast but that's that's for me I don't remember who said this I forget whose quote this is but I think probably she said as soon as

00:25:31: a couple of women are in one room The Healing Begins there's just something about,

00:25:36: being in communion with all of this because I don't think it's even fair to expect the other half of the species see even.

00:25:44: Remotely understand exactly what's going on here whether it's PMS or Endo or

00:25:50: are the menopause but yeah that's my feelings of sharing and talking and release when you don't think you're going I think that's the answer to why I don't want to be a man,

00:26:00: because I've been together with.

00:26:05: A lot of women and I'm not going to say lot of women sounds like how many sorry no no no I didn't sound right but I didn't mean it in a sexual way I meant,

00:26:17: you spend time with us been time a lot of women and.

00:26:22: I felt that connection and when you do it's it's a powerful things it's very powerful and it's an important thing I think.

00:26:33: I mean even for me with I'm not there yet but I think the other day I told you something that was going on with me and you were like,

00:26:40: yeah that's awesome menopause was it the I something the dryness of the eye the dryness of the eyes and I see yes okay can we say this on air hence why I,

00:26:52: I would say signaling to each other no no but.

00:27:01: I think you are there,

00:27:02: I don't think you are getting there I think you accept premenopause that's the menopause wasn't enough

00:27:14: somewhere around 50

00:27:15: someone looking like the Grim Reaper is hitting that bail be like yeah well no no it's a slow process creeps up on yeah thanks she's looking at me with an expression in her face

00:27:31: no but what would you say maybe to your younger self.

00:27:36: Knowing what you know now is there something of a consoling or just supportive.

00:27:45: Sentiments even advise I sorry about menopause you know yeah I would like to say to myself.

00:27:55: Look forward to this period in your life because it will make you stronger it you will all yes this is what it is I know this is what it is we will become.

00:28:06: So much stronger after the menopause.

00:28:10: We would be we will turn into another version of us women where we are free to do whatever you want to do.

00:28:19: I think this is the stage that people refer to if the wise woman stage you know in the cycle yes exactly there yeah necessarily yeah children but just a mother phase bring projects for that,

00:28:32: then there comes the wise woman.

00:28:35: Makes sense I hope and she's greeting me on the other side of his hands exactly where you think you need to know the something waiting on the other side because if not you will you go crazy.

00:28:45: Yes.

00:28:47: My things are it all but we women don't talk about it in that way we talked about it well if we ever talk about it if we talk about it as if it's only bad but like if it's the end,

00:29:01: and not the beginning of something because it is a beginning of a new type of me or life or approach to life or different thoughts or more space to do other things and.

00:29:12: Hey I got 30 days it's not seven days now it's 30 days.

00:29:18: I mean think about it how you don't feel controlled by exactly exactly.

00:29:26: No I will I don't want to agree with you okay because fair enough.

00:29:34: I think that the less you know the better I'm the same way as because you know I'm a hypochondriac also so I.

00:29:44: I'm so happy that nobody told me about this when I was younger because then I would have gone you know be waiting for it but.

00:29:57: You see I got even more scared.

00:30:00: I guess it depends on all of ya the dentist walks me through what she's about to do and I was like let me stop you right here using decision I don't want to know okay so over with okay let me out

00:30:12: sorry early before it's not the dentist I would like to know,

00:30:16: yeah yeah I would like to see yeah I know like a dentist do not tell me I would like to have a mirror.

00:30:23: But I didn't want to win it was the surgery

00:30:27: I just said she said to me that Scott doctor said that you know she said as it don't tell me anything about the surgeries it's she said well,

00:30:39: I do have to you know because he deleted yeah yeah exactly and I was like going to cut you open.

00:30:46: He would they have no I believe you and I think it's a go through it no but that's what I mean but since I don't like it now I okay early I'm with you on that one but I but I'm gonna have summarizing from what you're saying is that it really depends on,

00:30:59: who you were before this thing started in what way you would like to know about it or if you would like to know about it at all.

00:31:07: That's what I'm getting at you feels like maybe you would have not liked to have known some stuff.

00:31:12: Would you I think it's not a question about would I have liked to know I think it's more a question about.

00:31:21: Would I have liked to know what was waiting for me on the other side.

00:31:26: The big change it is the the greatness of this face in our life that I would have liked to know so,

00:31:34: I love wow we went on really long so there's a lot of things we could talk about I think maybe we should consider a second,

00:31:42: episode because I would like to talk more about the social aspects of it like.

00:31:47: What is it like to still be in a working environment when this is going on like you're still having to perform the way.

00:31:54: Other people or other male people do but they're not going through all this and I think that's interesting and then also what you mentioned Corina.

00:32:02: About shame I feel like we could have said a whole lot more about that but we'll do that next time so for my listeners,

00:32:10: I hope this wasn't too depressing overall for you but I can assure you you hear the girls I always call them girls by the way but

00:32:17: thank you I appreciate that see we're now at the stage where we're like yeah you can call us girls and makes us feel young but we realize the feminist issue around it but anyway I can assure you that these girls are,

00:32:30: living a really for me an exemplary life in terms of pursuing your luck and hunting it down without,

00:32:38: without cease so thank you for being here.

00:32:41: Both of you this has been a long-held dream of mine to get you in front of my God thank you for helping me thank you so much sweet words we love you thank you I love you I really do.

00:32:54: Thank you all for listening if you want to write to me I'm always happy to hear from you the email is bitch breathing at gmail.com and the I am bitch is a number one but you'll also see a link to in the show notes.

00:33:06: So thanks everybody for listening and sending love till next time.

00:33:10: Music.