00:00:00: Music.
00:00:11: Do you welcome back a new episode of bitch breathe I am your host ricardia.
00:00:16: So I am first and foremost really trying to keep up with production here because I'm also on the other side.
00:00:23: Still writing that book that I mentioned in my last episode and actually.
00:00:28: Fun fact the head I'm going to be having a profile on gumroad where you can listen to excerpts of the book I want to read.
00:00:38: From it maybe get your feedback see if it works or what you think about it and maybe even have a live call every week,
00:00:46: about breakups and the book is actually going to be called,
00:00:49: The Break-Up call so I'm really looking forward to engaging with you on this level also and I love for you to stay tuned to find out more as the process continues.
00:01:01: So today we are going to talk about narcissists at work.
00:01:09: You may have noticed the double entendre in the title because it's going to be about,
00:01:14: narcissistic personalities at our workplace but also and more poignantly about how narcissists work.
00:01:23: Just a few years ago I actually ended a long-term relationship with a narcissistic personality I had dated a few of them even before and
00:01:33: unfortunately after this experience so I've learned a lot about this personality type I learned why I was so drawn to it and if you'd like to go back
00:01:45: to my episodes about narcissists and how to leave a narcissistic relationship please feel welcome to do so I've gotten a lot of feedback about those so I know
00:01:55: many of us have dealt with them in a romantic context.
00:01:59: After all this experience my thinking was I know all about these people and,
00:02:07: I repeatedly said in my episodes that I don't like the reference to them and us because I always think we all contribute to a certain situation that were in
00:02:17: but I will refer to them and us for convenience sake in this episode also not too long ago.
00:02:26: I was.
00:02:27: In a new job it was a new project and I turned out to work not with just one narcissists but at least two and then later I discovered another person.
00:02:40: I'm laughing now because I'm like wow I cannot believe I did this another third person also turned out to have highly narcissistic behaviorisms.
00:02:51: So this is not an episode about how to handle staying in this kind of job because I'm going to be honest I'll say it right off the bat that I think the best.
00:03:00: Strategy for working with a narcissist if they are not going to leave then we should and that ultimately did become my strategy.
00:03:08: Both for my long-term relationship but also in my work and we'll get a little bit more into that later but if you do think that you might have caught a live one,
00:03:18: add your job that you might actually be working with someone who has narcissistic or even just subtly narcissistic Tendencies then I'd love to share with you,
00:03:28: some of the things that I learned very much the hard way.
00:03:32: So before we get into it I want to send ahead something in case you're looking for a new job and maybe it is interesting to see,
00:03:41: is there any way in this job search process that I can Safeguard against entering this kind of workplace
00:03:49: and I'm sure there are a lot of ways to think about that and this podcast length is so not going to serve the whole topic,
00:03:57: in a complete way anyway but two things I want to send a head if you're looking for a new job you want to be really sure that you're not getting into a narcissistic situation and the first thing.
00:04:10: You want to ask in a job interview and it's something I've taken up into my sort of catalog of questions when I'm interviewed for jobs now is that you asked what the team atmosphere is like.
00:04:21: This could throw your interviewer for a moment because they might sort of struggle with.
00:04:26: A why did you ask this and then they'll have a counter question of him what's your background why is this an issue and secondly they might not know how to answer because they know that there's some of these Dynamics in the workplace.
00:04:42: How do we know which is which we don't really maybe unless we're super super intuitive and I have a lot of friends who are and they just sort of,
00:04:49: the hair on the back of their neck stands up as soon as a predator or narcissists is in the room but what we can do is just ask that question and wait for the reaction,
00:04:59: of the other person and just to see is there any hesitancy or maybe they'll actually be very forthcoming and say.
00:05:05: This is a tough environment or this kind of field especially acting music fashion law all of these types of work these arenas
00:05:15: they lend themselves to a certain personality right so just to sort of look at this interviewer and see what the reaction to your question is,
00:05:24: piggybacking on that.
00:05:26: Take a close look at who is interviewing you my red flag one of the many many red flags that I should have noticed.
00:05:36: Was that this guy in this case it was a man actually bragged about the fact that he knew a very controversial
00:05:45: political figure which is Rick Grinnell you can look that guy up and you know you'll find a lot of news and you know Google articles on him
00:05:54: but for somebody to sort of be bragging about this or to be bragging about the kinds of parties they go to and if there's a lot of sort of image Consciousness going on that
00:06:04: I could be your first and maybe rather significant clue.
00:06:08: So once you've decided nope none of these things occurred in the interview and there aren't too many red flags but then you suddenly realize a wait a second.
00:06:17: There's something going on here.
00:06:19: A lot of times what I found in dealing with narcissists which is why it takes such a long time sometimes for us to realize when we're dealing with is that they can be very confusing
00:06:29: so what I noticed about this job was that when I went there on my way there I started to feel really,
00:06:37: confused I had a hard time thinking my thoughts all the way to the end and before I got there I could sense a strong sort of anxiety in my system.
00:06:47: At first I thought hates a new job it was super challenging I was working really really crazy hours and I thought that could be attributed to the fact that I had a new job and I wanted to live up to those challenges and really perform well.
00:07:00: But after a while I noticed it didn't dissipate in fact
00:07:05: the more I was working with these people the more confused I seem to get because while I was trying to solve one problem or I was trying to address a specific job that needed to get done that day they sort of kept switching around and moving to other issues.
00:07:19: And so I was sort of in this fog of like wait I thought we were talking about this thing and now you're addressing another and it was very very difficult to actually perform my job because I was so busy trying to not feel,
00:07:33: like a haze had come over me so here's a couple of things that I did,
00:07:38: I want to say not to stay in the job because again my ultimate sacrifice if you will or my ultimate suggestion is to get the hell out of there.
00:07:47: Sticking to some of the things we can do if we cannot leave this job right now.
00:07:52: And one of the strategies you really want to apply with a narcissist now I'm drawing both from my romantic choices and the job context is exposure.
00:08:02: Narcissists do not like to be exposed so when you notice that what they're doing is a very negative thing it doesn't even have to be called out as you're being a narcissist but if
00:08:15: commenting or identifying Behavior Rhythms on their part that are negative or in any way being criticized.
00:08:25: You're in for quite a ride because they do not want to be exposed and they will
00:08:31: by their very nature lash out so the safe course from me was to not call this person out and to pretend I wasn't noticing some of the things they were doing.
00:08:43: And we'll get to those now in a moment so stay with a kind of.
00:08:48: Generalized naivete until you absolutely cannot anymore and that brings me to my next point.
00:08:55: Narcissists have a way of provoking us and I'm saying this because I was a yoga teacher for many years I've been practicing yoga for a lot a lot of time like over one and a half decades and
00:09:08: it had been a long time that somebody was able to provoke me to a point where I could not keep my anger in check.
00:09:16: This was old new behaviour to me I used to have an anger management problem I thought I had it solved until I ran into this co-worker.
00:09:26: Who was a phenomenally narcissistic woman she was so hell-bent on changing the rules of engagement or.
00:09:35: Manipulating and sabotaging my work in ways that were noticeable and visible to everybody and that made me look really really bad at my job.
00:09:44: That I took the bait and I became really angry.
00:09:49: And even though I didn't call her out on what I knew what was happening I did correct her I did correct.
00:09:56: What she was doing and I reprimanded her for exposing me in a way that was not just not helpful.
00:10:04: It was to humiliate me in front of other people which is something narcissists love to do to take the stage and make you smaller,
00:10:13: so when we rise to the bait of what is obviously a very unjust situation we lose we lose the game right off the bat because friction.
00:10:23: And confrontation is exactly the kind of soil that narcissists can grow in really well.
00:10:31: So when you notice you're being provoked on your work is being sabotaged try to manage the anger.
00:10:38: The sadness the fury over what has happening and take a step back so that you don't react right away.
00:10:46: Now I know some of my language sounds rather I want to say dire but when you are when you have been in a situation with a narcissistic coworker,
00:10:56: or boss even worse then you know what I'm talking about it's time to have a battle plan and to know what weapons are good to use and which ones will be a
00:11:05: harmful to you and be completely harmless to them.
00:11:10: Another part of working with narcissists is that you will get sidetracked
00:11:15: there's so much maybe criticism coming your way or like I said changing the rules of engagement sabotaging your work maybe there's a lot of bad-mouthing and gossip going on you're going to start getting sidetracked
00:11:27: and you might not necessarily be able to perform your job the way you would if you weren't constantly trying to put out fires but putting out fires
00:11:37: is what you will be doing if you let yourself be sidetracked by all the hindrances that are being thrown your way and by the petty arguments that narcissists will never Tire of getting into with you.
00:11:50: Say if you notice that managing their sabotage has become sort of a full-time job for you.
00:11:58: Then again if you can you try to get out of this work situation maybe talk to a superior.
00:12:05: With this nice assistant person in the room so have like a meeting and just say from your point of view I feel like this is happening I'm interested in having a good cooperation 'l work with you what can we do
00:12:18: so sort of bringing in if that person is a neutral person that neutral Superior or other work coworker into the room so that you have
00:12:28: Witnesses and that you can maybe try to figure out how to work together so you don't keep getting sidetracked.
00:12:35: One of the key things that I learned about narcissists at work especially way too late is something I learned actually from another podcast it's called superhumans at work it's by Mindvalley,
00:12:47: if you've listened to pass episodes of mine you know I love that that organization and
00:12:53: there was a lawyer there who wrote a book I think her name is Alexandra Zhang but I'll put it in the show notes for you she says that you have to know what a narcissists biggest need is.
00:13:06: And the biggest need and narcissists has is Supply.
00:13:11: And what is it they need to be supplied with nothing less than everything that you have that they think they don't.
00:13:20: This lawyer goes on to explain that narcissists are scarcity thinkers they don't feel they have enough of anything.
00:13:28: And regardless of what childhood they had or how they might have arrived at this I mean let's face it we've all got laundry list of shit that went wrong in childhood and I'm not interested in sort of psychoanalyzing them for now but know that you're dealing with someone.
00:13:43: Who always feels there's not enough for them,
00:13:47: doesn't matter how unimportant this thing is for them it's important and for them it's important to always have more than whatever person it is they picked to well pick on if you will.
00:14:01: So if you're dealing with a person who constantly operates from a place of scarcity.
00:14:07: Then know that that is a bottomless pit nothing we can say,
00:14:12: no acts of cooperation and prodding and trying to understand will fill
00:14:19: this deficit so when you know you're dealing with this person and you know they're vying for every little bit of attention freebies raises
00:14:28: that they want that they think is great know that that is going to continue they will always want these things because they feel they don't have enough.
00:14:37: So as you can see I'm already implying strongly that if you cannot leave the job immediately.
00:14:43: Then you do want to start looking because certain field invite this kind of personality in and this also goes across.
00:14:54: All genres or a fields of work I guess for leadership
00:14:58: a lot of leadership roles and a lot of leaders have strong narcissistic Tendencies so what if this isn't a co-worker this narcissists what if
00:15:08: narcissists person at work is your boss did I mention before that you should get the hell out of there and I really mean that when it comes to,
00:15:18: this particular Dynamic if you feel like your boss is a narcissist but you don't have a lot to do with them because a lot of bosses are not really hands on then
00:15:27: whatever that's a choice we make and we have to decide do we want to make money for this company because it's good for us it's good for other people it's financially lucrative,
00:15:37: do we feel this organization is important enough to make this sacrifice but if you have to answer both of these questions.
00:15:45: With a no that maybe if you have the privilege and the luxury to do so,
00:15:50: really look for an organization that appreciates you and sees your skills and doesn't operate from a me me me I want this point first,
00:16:02: there was a time when I was working with these.
00:16:06: People that I thought maybe I can set boundaries so my coworker who was.
00:16:16: I'm always trying to describe her without getting really mean no seriously now this one was very very challenging to me so one co-worker that I worked with I try to at least tell her to not speak to me,
00:16:31: in this manner and that if she would continue to write me these kinds of WhatsApp sort X I would have to block her from my phone.
00:16:39: That helped a little bit because the verbal abuse on WhatsApp and texts stopped I told her I wouldn't react and I would block her so she knew this was not a Communication channel that she could keep up.
00:16:52: But it didn't take all too long for her to find other ways to get in my way to expose my mistakes if I made them and to aggressively pursue my demise.
00:17:05: So try to set boundaries in small ways wherever you can again also having Witnesses in the room with you so they can see that you tried to stay civilized that you try to set boundaries and to really be careful.
00:17:19: About the way you address this person so that your job and you can be safe,
00:17:25: and that you are being treated in a respectful manner even if there's no amicable connection here that at least you're not constantly being disrespected in the last question
00:17:36: if I haven't already mentioned it in so many ways here is that we have to ask ourselves is this job worth our health.
00:17:44: And how exhausted are we.
00:17:47: And what kind of exhaustion is this are we exhausted because we work long hours or are we exhausted because we're constantly trying to battle this person or these personalities and
00:17:59: for me
00:18:00: ultimately I could see I had no influence here there was no way I could change the whole company's culture which was already very narcissistic there was no way I could change the kind of Engagement that I would have with my coworkers
00:18:15: and the worst or best part because it made me leave was.
00:18:20: That it was clear nobody of these kinds of personalities can be trusted you cannot trust their behavior.
00:18:30: Their actions their words none of it necessarily needs to be true and none of it necessarily needs to be valid.
00:18:38: So being very clear that if you do stay.
00:18:42: If you say listen I want to put my portfolio together I need this on my resume I want to have worked for this particular client.
00:18:51: Then know that you are in a situation where you cannot trust anybody.
00:18:56: Why do I emphasize this so much at the beginning of the podcast or this episode rather I mentioned that there was one more person who.
00:19:05: Didn't necessarily come off as a nurse assist at first in fact I felt that this person was just sort of neutral and want to say normal in her engagement with me.
00:19:17: But then when it was clear that I was losing the battle in this particular context,
00:19:22: this person flipped the script and it turns out I couldn't trust this person either
00:19:28: and that's when I realized that the entire culture of the company I was working for was
00:19:35: poisoned was toxic and you've seen those oil spills on the ocean trying to come into this kind of environment.
00:19:45: As what we might think a non narcissistic personality and trying to see that we can work there maybe even influence in a positive way is like trying to gather up Boyle from an ocean with your bare hands.
00:20:00: You can't it's contaminated from the root and there's very little you can do.
00:20:06: So I hope this wasn't too sort of depressing in terms of like there's nothing you can do you gotta get out of there but because of all the mental health points I sacrificed in the kinds of environments that I worked in that were like this I guess I felt it was necessary to talk about this a little more
00:20:26: because it's omnipresent I'm hearing a lot about it even in very very different kinds of work and it's very hard to deal with.
00:20:35: And so it's helpful I think.
00:20:37: To have an exchange with other people about what it is we can do to either somehow make it work or to find a good exit strategy.
00:20:48: Hoping you're well and that you have wonderful co-workers like I do now.
00:20:53: Music.
