00:00:00: Music.
00:00:10: You welcome back to a new edition of bitch breathe I am your host ricardia Bramley.
00:00:16: So imagine the following scenario you're walking into your bathroom one morning you still really tired and but.
00:00:22: Sleepy and the alarm on your partner's phone goes off.
00:00:28: And you switch off the alarm and suddenly I already in the middle of the phone it's been unlocked by doing so and for some reason.
00:00:38: You don't really know why it's very subconscious you start looking through the phone of your partner not something you do every day certainly not in a sleepy Slumber at approximately 7:30 in the morning but do what you do.
00:00:53: And you go through the messages when you scroll and.
00:00:56: Suddenly your attention gets a little more astute I want to say and you're finding names in there that you're not familiar with now keep in mind you've been with this partner for a very long time so you kind of know.
00:01:08: His or her circle of friends and you're looking at these in this case woman's messages to in this case your male partner.
00:01:16: And they're kind of flirty and then you scroll a little bit more.
00:01:21: And they're a little more than flirty and before you know it you have scrolled your way through several WhatsApp messages and messenger messages and you're realizing your partner,
00:01:34: is having a full-on life that doesn't include you your husband has started dating and you're not the person they're dating so even though this doesn't
00:01:46: seemed like a funny thing it certainly didn't at the time it seems funny now because it was so surreal so I grabbed the phone I'm
00:01:54: now in a situation where I'm having sort of an out-of-body experience like I'm stepping out of my body because apparently this can't be happening to me this must be some other person I know I'm shaking all over I'm in the Twilight Zone with my mind I grab this phone I run into the bedroom I hold it in front of my still sleeping husband's face
00:02:16: and I say what is this
00:02:19: husband have been out that night so he's even sleepier than I am meanwhile I'm good of course not so sleepy because my adrenaline his own full force and he says what what are you doing and I said read this.
00:02:31: And he's looking at the phone and you can see the dawning on his face.
00:02:36: And now things go very very quickly he jumps up grabs the phone of course,
00:02:43: goes immediately into the offensive of like why you checking my phone that I had a totally right why was I checking the phone I have no idea because I had never done it before but I'm looking at him and I said
00:02:54: no I'm asking the questions what is this there is this pause and he says to me it means nothing.
00:03:03: And here is the part where I think it was super super funny because my first reaction after shaking and bringing the phone to him was.
00:03:12: Kicking him in the balls.
00:03:14: Now you might think that this is a figurative thing no I actually kicked the guy in the balls and I said this is the second funny part
00:03:24: how dare you do you realize how many propositions I turned down how many times I said no when clearly now I should have been saying yes
00:03:35: and I thought that was so funny it wasn't even how could you do this to me how could you do this to our family it wasn't any of that it was like dude I had so many opportunities and you beat me to the punch.
00:03:46: Anyway
00:03:48: the cut this part of the story a little shorter now we were in a space of there's a cheating party and someone who's been cheated,
00:03:57: and I wanted to talk about this topic today because this is many many years ago now and it's not something that hurts so much anymore and certainly not from this person more like you know the trust issues but we'll get into all that later
00:04:10: and I also want to send a little.
00:04:12: Disclaimer ahead and that is I have been unfaithful in some relationships and then of course I'm going to jump to my own defense right away and say I was a lot younger,
00:04:23: it was foolish and I never did this over a sustained period of time.
00:04:30: Of course that's a totally apologetic argument but I'm going to do it anyway but I also just wanted to include myself so it doesn't become this them and us I think we each
00:04:40: as you've heard me probably say in many episodes before carry the seed to be the other,
00:04:46: if we weren't reflections of each other we may not necessarily be in each other's lives so after having discovered this
00:04:54: and reeling with pain because I knew my life was now unraveling life as I knew it to be at that time was officially over and it stayed over so.
00:05:06: Knowing that what do we do if we even want to speak in terms of action.
00:05:13: Now because this is such a big topic I want to say a head that this episode is probably going to be a little bit longer than they normally are because I did think about having two episodes on it but then I thought nah let's get this all into one if we can.
00:05:28: So the immediate aftermath was many many things and any of you women and men and anybody,
00:05:37: who's ever been in a relationship and whose experiences knows what I'm talking about there are so many ways to go upon making this discovery that for a moment you ain't in fight,
00:05:49: you ain't in-flight okay I kicked the guy but after that I went into that third mode freeze mode I froze.
00:05:57: I couldn't believe that this was happening to me,
00:06:01: and here comes my arrogance I thought this only happens to other women and I'm going to take my arrogance my honest arrogance a little bit further I thought it happened to women who have low self-esteem or
00:06:14: who don't think of themselves as very pretty or who Society might not even consider a catch visually speaking now or
00:06:22: who've been married for very long but they kind of let the sex slide or who had let themselves go maybe who maybe once looked one way and now they look another all this Prejudice I had around the
00:06:35: women especially who have been cheated I am speaking from a heteronormative perspective sorry that's the only one that I really truly know.
00:06:43: So I thought this was another species of woman that this happens.
00:06:49: Basically or as she let something happen that was clearly an indicator that you know what you're going to do this a thing then B is going to occur,
00:06:58: for this to happen to me was I want to say humbling it was the strangest,
00:07:04: strangest thing that had ever occurred within a relationship let's say not with in life but within a relationship and I didn't know what to do with this new,
00:07:15: fact,
00:07:16: apart from trying to sort of disentangle the fact from fiction from Hope from dreams crushed it was all these things and I didn't know what to do.
00:07:27: I couldn't believe that this was happening with this person whom I trusted whom I loved so so much at least I thought so at the time and because I'm a person who likes to fix things.
00:07:40: I thought maybe I can just fix this somehow let me step into some sort of action but I couldn't I froze
00:07:46: how did you do that to me it just didn't fit together it took me my entire cognitive capacity which was very limited at that moment to even wrap my brain around what had happened.
00:07:59: But I wanted to take steps also so the first question I asked myself was.
00:08:05: Well what do I do now do I make a move out for a moment or am I scared that then he's going to go off
00:08:11: even more and sleep with even more women than already was the case like what am I supposed to do right now do I go for distance or do I go for proximity lock this shit in figure out what happened what did I contribute for you to do this to me.
00:08:26: And there's no good answers to any of the questions I'm going to open up the space for today but I think sometimes questions are a lot more easy to handle when we're so confused and hurt then.
00:08:41: It is to find answers.
00:08:43: So in my case I was so scared that I didn't know what to do but I was also repelled by this guy I was like
00:08:51: grows how many and what and you came to my bed after I like all these fantasies and then you start recreating when did this happen and how and how did I not notice right all these things but first of all I decided you need to get out,
00:09:06: you need to leave this apartment right now which was super hard on my case because the dude didn't want to go,
00:09:12: right because he was also worried shit if I leave the premises now she is going to have a whole lot easier time staying away from me and I think at the time he did still want our relationship to work.
00:09:24: But I kicked him out I said dude I don't know where you sleep tonight I don't even want to think about it after these facts have come to light but you need to leave so that's what I did I put distance between us.
00:09:35: And so I worked with distance I needed to put distance between us so that he wouldn't manipulate me into seeing this from his point of view there was time for his point of view but that time wasn't now so I'm not recommending the distance.
00:09:49: But I certainly am not recommending proximity
00:09:53: before the situation that I found my self in keep in mind whenever we cheat on somebody or somebody cheats on us
00:10:00: there's a backstory to that right always it might be there as it might be our shared history but I think we all know we don't just arrived at infidelity without there being any previous steps.
00:10:11: So just first and foremost when this happens when we're in shock,
00:10:15: to maybe just first decide okay do I need to be close to this person or do I need to put some distance between us this is something that I found helpful to do.
00:10:25: As one of the first things as time went by these weeks went by and we were having conversations for some of this time.
00:10:33: But I took a moment also I think about a week or so later we started to have conversations and I started to want to know the facts.
00:10:42: And when I say this when you start to say all right let's
00:10:46: examine this together please what are the facts how long has this been going on and for some reason you're going to get really
00:10:53: Nitty Gritty about this you're going to want to know how many women which women when it happened for how long it's going on it all hurts so so much and yet you won't stop asking these questions if you're anything like me you are going to want to get down
00:11:08: with the facts and that's why I'm here to tell you I understand the Instinct I did it too but be prepared,
00:11:17: to not get the facts because now this other person may open up and say listen this is what's been going on I've been worried about real relationship this is was knots been working for me
00:11:27: great somebody opens up like that what a blessing you've actually got a real shot at maybe mending whatever it was that went wrong in my case
00:11:37: I had to be prepared that I wasn't getting the facts they came very sort of dripped dropped some of them were contradicting each other and I could tell all of this was driven by an agenda to conceal
00:11:48: what had happened and to keep me
00:11:51: and your partner even if it's just out of habit it might be love and I hope to God it is but they're going to try to hold on to you.
00:11:59: Because no one likes change to happen and no one likes to be at fault for that change either regardless of what kind of lovely person or complete douchebag it is that you find yourself in a relationship with.
00:12:12: Nobody wants to yield that control to the other even if they cause some of what is happening here.
00:12:18: So just go ahead do your detective work put the guy through the third degree or the gal and know that you may not get the full testimony.
00:12:29: And that brings me to my next point if you notice gaps in the testimony look at the following thing how quickly either willing to explain what happened.
00:12:40: Elaborate on the answers to your questions.
00:12:43: Or how quickly are they going to begin a story of denial wanting to move forward let's just put this behind us this was a bad episode I did I can't even tell you how quickly my guy was trying to move forward.
00:12:58: First there was the apologies but then you could quickly tell it was like all right enough already because he didn't want to be the guilty party for too much longer hey let's face it who does who wants to be guilty as a lot of fun place to be people pointing fingers at you,
00:13:13: so look very closely not at what is being said because again this could be full of gaps
00:13:21: and the agenda to conceal,
00:13:24: and see what the strategy behind what they're saying is are they rushing you to move forward are they rushing into.
00:13:33: Allay your fears are they wanting to explain what happened do they even have a theory why,
00:13:40: and that's a very precarious question by the way I will get back to that later what is it that didn't work between you between this organism that is your relationship.
00:13:49: If they're willing to somehow go into a Cooperative mode and an explanatory one good for you because I think this is such a healthy sign that this person.
00:13:59: A is an adult.
00:14:01: Be is possibly not a lifetime cheater it might be he actually wants to work on this relationship and this was just an escape from the relationship because the person didn't know how else to handle it totally possible in my case not so much,
00:14:15: so what comes next of course
00:14:18: I'm screaming for couples therapy clearly we've got ourselves a cancerous situation of our relationship let's go to some doctor or person who can help us fix it
00:14:29: and I don't think that's a bad idea I realize a lot of us know this by now we usually go to couples therapy when it's way too late so
00:14:36: I wanted to do couples therapy because I wanted to get to the bottom of this I was like let's speak to a neutral person because I want to kill your ass right now I am in no position
00:14:48: to listen to your stories to listen to your denial to face the fact that you have been sleeping with others besides me.
00:14:56: Can't do it need someone in the room who's going to stop me from punching you or kicking you again.
00:15:01: Here's what happens a lot and if by the way you need a good couples coach one of my best friend's is a couple's coach and Verlin she's excellent hit me up for her contacts or I'll even put them in the show notes for you
00:15:13: but maybe what happens is what happened to me,
00:15:16: my guy didn't one couples therapy and I spoke to a friend of mine a woman in this case whom of whom I had known she had also had a long-standing affair with another guy when she was married and I said to her,
00:15:29: did you want to go to therapy and she said no and I'll tell you why I was worried.
00:15:35: That he would find out even more of what had happened so I refused.
00:15:41: I thought that was very interesting first of all I think it's important that this came from a woman because a lot of times in the narratives that I've noticed especially in the spiritual scene for some reason but also outside is that the women of the cheated parties
00:15:53: but I'm not even going to venture into any statistics as to who does more cheating because I really don't have a clue
00:15:59: I really don't know because I haven't always been faithful.
00:16:04: Let's just say I don't want to know but the couples therapy just to get back to that wasn't happening so I had to say goodbye to the idea of there being a neutral person who can somehow fix all of this,
00:16:17: and I was hindered by another thing that was coming up I started to realize I was and it pains me to admit this now.
00:16:26: But I know that this happens because if you've ever heard of s apparel also a great great couples therapist internationally renowned just got podcast everything I know that she said this in her book and I think it also was said in one of her podcast episodes the question that came up was how attracted I you to this
00:16:43: partner who has cheated on you right now
and I was madly attracted.
00:16:50: My own weird way of handling maybe the whole relationship but certainly this episode of it
00:16:57: so I was riding this whole universe of dichotomies and contradictions and competing emotions,
00:17:06: it was very difficult to maneuver.
00:17:09: And so while I'm still in this whole fog of what happened and how did this happen to me and to us.
00:17:19: I began to move a little bit forward by asking myself well is this thing still working.
00:17:25: I mean how much do I have to look at what happened in terms of what I've not contributed to this relationship
00:17:33: for maybe years how much of this is still working and what I began to realize because I was in so much pain that sort of.
00:17:42: Violently jerked me into a new reality and in this new reality I realize oh man we have not been working for years we don't have great conversations anymore we don't have deep exchange of thought.
00:17:56: We don't really help each other grow anymore and they will all these things that I started to realize that I thought you know what you might have cheated on me in a physical way and that hurts like an m f.
00:18:08: But I also deserted you in some ways.
00:18:12: I didn't look out for your best interest anymore I stopped a long time ago and though I had many reasons to do that I'm not.
00:18:21: Going to pretend that all of this is on my partner or was I certainly started to realize a lot of this is not working.
00:18:29: So this question of what is working and what is not working propelled me into this next one and this one is key because this long question will either hold you Hostage to a situation that no longer serves you.
00:18:43: Or help you both move forward in a way that you can start a whole new relationship what I'm getting at.
00:18:50: Is you're going to ask yourself this and a lot of what happens in the next couple of weeks or months.
00:18:56: Hinges on the answer if you are ready and able and willing.
00:19:03: To answer it and that is what is still here.
00:19:08: Are there children families is there any sickness involved on any part of the family,
00:19:14: is there real estate you won't you will you will start looking at finances very quickly if you are dependent on on the other side I luckily wasn't but I still thought about real estate in terms of shit who's going to live where.
00:19:27: Right and the last one what is still here in terms of love.
00:19:33: Do I really still love this person is my hurt of betrayal yes valid but is it really because I still love this person.
00:19:42: Or is it because you have now changed the game in a way that I can no longer not look at it.
00:19:49: And where I no longer recognize the rules and there is no referee because there is no right or wrong.
00:19:56: And depending on how we answer this question what is still here a lot of steps will be taken and it's going to take time.
00:20:06: Now I know there are some of us and more power to you who when they discover the infidelity of a partner they're gone they're like that's it,
00:20:14: I don't want to be here anymore and
00:20:16: I admire that a lot I'm not sure it is always the right answer to infidelity it certainly wasn't mine because I hung out for a moment longer in fact I hung out or about five or six more months looking at,
00:20:31: what is still here.
00:20:33: And we didn't have children together but we each had a child from previous relationships and we were a family you share an apartment maybe you got a joint account.
00:20:43: If you want to talk about breakups on what to do when they then actually occur go ahead refer back to my double episode on that where I will totally walk you through.
00:20:52: What can be done at that time so when you've answered this question it's time to move forward a little bit to find a way.
00:21:02: And this can take time some people take years to finally leave some take months others like I said take off right away.
00:21:10: Another question that will also determine whether or not you stay is.
00:21:17: Do you believe in the principle of once a cheater always a cheater.
00:21:24: And I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't I think that there are very very various multi-layered reasons for people to cheat men women anyone in between so I don't necessarily subscribe to that notion.
00:21:39: However in my case.
00:21:42: I had to realize upon discovering fact after fact after fact and all the things my friends or I should say more acquaintances were starting to tell me when word got out.
00:21:54: I realize now I was with a lifetime cheater.
00:21:58: And even though I know I contributed to things going wrong in the relationship I also knew that this person was never going to be able to stay faithful.
00:22:07: And the thing that then helped me this is my final point I want to make nobody deserves to be cheated on.
00:22:17: Nobody not even people who have cheated in their past not even people who are cheating right now nobody deserves to be betrayed,
00:22:26: because what that does to our souls not the people now but what it does to our souls is so incredible it's almost for one soul to betray another it's never a good idea whether we're doing it whether they're doing it keeping that in mind.
00:22:40: Ending this on a Shakespeare note if you will all the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players why am I saying that.
00:22:50: Because what helped me what really propelled me forward when I finally realized.
00:22:56: That I had to take responsibility for what had happened this didn't just happen to me this happens for you.
00:23:04: And when we take responsibility we can't underestimate that that is an emancipation
00:23:11: that is a journey worthwhile taking for each and every one of us because when I started to realize that I had manifested this into my life I didn't have to make this guy a full-blown asshole
00:23:23: I still thought of him for as a full-blown assault for many many years do not worry no Saints found on this podcast but I was able to see how I had,
00:23:35: failed him how I had become unfaithful to his soul and the kind of contract that we had entered when we said.
00:23:43: I do and I don't even mean marriage I just mean stepping into what I thought was a monogamous relationship so when we take responsibility.
00:23:52: And I know how self-righteous we feel at that moment and please believe me that I know the pain when somebody we love betrays us but when you take the responsibility.
00:24:03: You also take back your power you have power here.
00:24:08: You have power to leave you have power to confront you have power to fix this but before you don't recognize that you are not a victim and you haven't just been betrayed there's no power there,
00:24:20: and so you just real and convulse with pain but you don't really manage to find a way out of it.
00:24:30: So that's what I'm trying to say that each of us plays a role on this stage of a relationship.
00:24:38: So that was a long episode I suspected it would become a very long one I'm thinking about having another episode on this we'll see what comes up this episode was not easy for me to record because it required.
00:24:52: A lot of honesty and I think Honesty with this kind of stuff comes really really hard and at a very high price but I.
00:25:01: Like with all my episodes in this podcast I would have needed my own podcast when all this was happening so I really truly hope it serves you.
00:25:11: Maybe there's some insight that you haven't yet arrived at or that you have arrived at and you'd like to share your.
00:25:17: Perspective of it I would love to hear about it please go ahead write to me my email address is bitch breathe at gmail.com.
00:25:26: But because Google didn't allow me to do bitch the eye in bitch is a number one so bitch with a one breathe at gmail.com.
00:25:36: Also if you haven't yet please feel free to comment to rate the podcast wherever you obtain it and on till then take good care of yourself.
00:25:45: Music.
