00:00:00: Music.

00:00:10: Something to bitch breathe and my name is ricardia.

00:00:14: In my last episode I had talked about narcissists are being in a narcissistic relationship and we sort of

00:00:21: hopefully had a little laugh together about all the little traps and trappings and situations we get ourselves in when we come into a relationship that

00:00:31: often seems cliched many times we're talking about and then it actually happens to you today I want to talk about

00:00:39: narcissistic relationships again but in a different way because today we're going to talk about.

00:00:46: How maybe we can find some ways to leave a narcissistic relationship.

00:00:53: Now before I say anything about this.

00:00:57: I had categorized are narcissists I'm sure there are many more than my little categories I had spoken about the mean sort of.

00:01:06: Really negligent narcissistic partner and then I had talked about the oblivious friendly one who just always forgets your around there is of course

00:01:17: an escalated version which is the narcissistic type that can get very dangerous,

00:01:22: physically dangerous to you though I didn't get into a full-on situation like that I did have reason to be nervous once or twice so if that is the kind of situation you're in.

00:01:35: I want to say two things to you first of all I won't be talking about this kind of escalation because it requires very different qualifications from what I have and.

00:01:47: I just think that one definitely needs a plan and a serious support network when you're trying to leave that kind of relationship.

00:01:54: And there is also some really good literature about it out there one is by Lundy,

00:01:59: Bancroft and it's called why does he do that I think that is it I will put it in the show notes for you but in any case I'm not going to talk about this particular.

00:02:10: Sort of situation today I want to talk about.

00:02:15: More in quotes I'm going to put this now harmless but definitely very common situations that you can find yourself in when you leaving a narcissistic relationship.

00:02:26: So

00:02:27: when I left mine I've not had a series of them but I've had a few I noticed there were certain things that kept showing up

00:02:37: when I was at the end of this relationship I had noticed that it was time to leave I didn't want to leave to be honest at the time I thought I love this person very very much and I was very very entangled with his.

00:02:52: Yeah his whole biorhythm his whole being so I did not leave voluntarily I want to send that ahead it was.

00:03:00: Not something that I really wanted to do

00:03:05: but do it I had to and so I wanted it to be a loving end you know I was a yoga teacher and I thought you know I really want us to leave each other in a respectful and loving way and so every time I said I wanted to leave and I would then deliver.

00:03:22: What I thought were Common Sense arguments they wouldn't convince him

00:03:27: and you might know this from having argued with this person for a long time this woman this man that common-sense arguments are not the way to go they're not interested

00:03:38: and having an adult conversation probably if they were you wouldn't be thinking about leaving

00:03:44: so that's actually my first point I want to make is that do not try to.

00:03:51: Offer up Common Sense arguments they won't be heard they most certainly won't be accepted and they're not going to make this a loving and respectful break up they.

00:04:03: Won't let you.

00:04:04: And again I said this in my last episode I'm only using VA and us for lack of a better word because I don't like this whole Duality I don't like the idea that they're one thing and we're another,

00:04:17: and then that sort of feels like we're the victim there the perpetrator I always think that each of us may carry the seed to be both of those people.

00:04:26: So that was my little disclaimer there yeah Common Sense arguments won't work saying that you are leaving,

00:04:35: I won't convince them either that you are maybe you said it many times before I maybe you've tried to actually leave many times before but you didn't quite get around to it or you didn't

00:04:47: manage it you kept coming back so not only do they have precedent

00:04:52: that you're not going to leave they also don't believe that you will because they think you're too dependent on them.

00:04:59: And they probably are right because we let them take over parts of our Lives maybe maybe it was also nice for someone to take care of us but now that this went on for a while,

00:05:11: they have every right probably to think,

00:05:14: see he's not going to leave they haven't before and quite frankly I'm just too good they're never going to find anybody as good as me which is probably one of the arguments you will hear that nobody is going to love you the way they do.

00:05:28: Hopefully not no one's ever going to be as interested

00:05:33: what could very well happen is you're going to be left with a barrage of insults of you're too old you're too fat you're too crazy oh I love the too crazy one

00:05:43: and all these two things that make you feel like oh my God if I leave this person I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life

00:05:52: that is one of the tricks that will happen in a narcissistic relationship is that you are going to be convinced you don't deserve any better you won't find any better.

00:06:03: And this is probably an okay deal.

00:06:06: Definitely this happened to me and in all the literature I've read and all the conversations I've had with women and men out there I can tell you I wasn't the only one and so if you've experienced this neither a you they will,

00:06:21: find every trick in the box that worked before especially if you've been together for a long time to keep you there.

00:06:29: And that brings me to another tool is that don't believe anything that is being said from this point forward you probably had very good reason not to believe anything that came before.

00:06:42: Or again you wouldn't be leaving but now is the time to really really not suspend your disbelief but instead listen carefully,

00:06:52: to what is being said but more importantly to what is not being said because chances are somewhere in between there's the truth and the truth is screaming at you to get the hell out of there so,

00:07:06: but I think that was tool number three is to say that you're going to leave is not going to be convincing to them.

00:07:13: What is convincing and what is the hardest thing you might ever feel you've ever had to do,

00:07:19: is to let your actions speak louder than your words and that means that you take Serious steps,

00:07:26: to leave this person and I don't just mean have an action plan write down all the things you don't love about them anymore all the things you do even that you want to sort of counteract

00:07:37: what I mean is know that this is a very difficult thing to do,

00:07:43: they're often very charismatic people they have all the convincing arguments and they've made you stay before even when your impetus was to leave so start putting some action into place what does that mean specifically,

00:07:57: it might mean that you look for a new apartment it might.

00:08:01: No it most certainly means that you have your friends on speed dial as we used to call it day and night you're going to need all.

00:08:09: All the emotional support that you can get and I will get to that particular point a bit later.

00:08:15: So really having actionable steps in place so that you feel safe that you feel

00:08:21: you have a course of action and if children are involved and obviously have a whole bunch of steps that you can take around their well-being and so that their lives.

00:08:33: Only get disrupted in a minimum way they will get disrupted and this is very hard

00:08:40: I could make a whole episode just about what that is like with children and I don't want to get too too crazy with that topic just now but yes definitely have some steps for them as well.

00:08:53: The next thing more like.

00:08:57: A typical characteristic I think that occurs if you think you're going to get credit for trying to dissolve this relationship in a respectful loving way because that's always been your approach.

00:09:11: It hasn't always been for me I was very very mean in between two but the more yoga and meditation I did the more I knew at the end of this relationship I wanted it to be a respectful ending where you can still talk to each other in a normal way

00:09:26: I'm here too.

00:09:28: Break that illusion I'm afraid it very well may be that you won't be able to that you won't get respect that they won't dissolve this loving their maybe insults again if there was ever any physical.

00:09:43: Violence or anything of the kind than you know what to do or I hope you know what to do to get the hell because this is a dangerous situation otherwise but.

00:09:53: Even if it's not a physically dangerous situation there's going to be a lot of.

00:09:59: Difficult insults and things you're going to hear and you won't,

00:10:04: be getting any respect for having tried over and over again to make this a peaceful ending,

00:10:13: which means you're going to have to accept that they really don't like you anymore,

00:10:18: at least in my case I remember going from this relationship that was a romantic and a long relationship to being Public Enemy Number One overnight,

00:10:30: overnight I meant nothing to this person anymore nothing at all.

00:10:36: I was insulted in the worst ways I hadn't even heard words like that put together in that way

00:10:41: towards me especially I was being destroyed on every level of self-confidence that I could have possibly tried to muster and I was,

00:10:52: very close to being annihilated

00:10:55: just by trying to leave just by trying to not go low and you know think of Michelle Obama when they go low we go high

00:11:04: I really tried that when they went low I just had to go low and it still didn't matter so it's not going to matter how you try to dissolve this relationship just dissolve it,

00:11:15: I guess and we'll get to that bit later in the anyway you can I don't mean to then insult and be mean also but just know that you won't.

00:11:25: Be able to be loved and respected once you decide to leave and when you decide to leave.

00:11:33: Realize in their eyes you're the one who broke the commitment you left your wrong and everything about you is going to be wrong too.

00:11:43: That is not easy to do.

00:11:45: Especially if you like being right and if you've got your own ego going which I can tell you I have and had plenty of so,

00:11:54: I wanted to be right I want it to be justified in my action and I wanted this person to say,

00:12:01: I'm sorry for what I did your right to leave me I don't deserve you.

00:12:08: Apart from the fact that that was totally delusional for him to say something like that it's also not necessary you can leave

00:12:15: you don't have to be a good person you probably are but even if you're not it doesn't matter because in this particular moment all that matters is that this thing get.

00:12:26: Dissolved and separated so except that he is or she is going to think you were wrong.

00:12:34: You were wrong to do this you are not.

00:12:38: Able to keep a long-term relationship that is some of the things that are going to be said to you and you're going to have to accept it if you want to leave.

00:12:48: Speaking of wanting to leave here comes sort of the second set of.

00:12:54: Tools when it comes to leaving a narcissistic relationship you're going to be tempted to get back together and.

00:13:02: You probably will know that you will falter and that it is okay.

00:13:09: It's not easy to leave it's never easy to break up a relationship whether you've fallen out of love or whether the conditions have become the kind that you couldn't stay and you do still love,

00:13:22: it's always difficult right we know this it looks impossible at the beginning I know for me I thought oh there's no way,

00:13:30: there's no way I can leave this guy I was still very attracted I was so in love

00:13:37: after all these years you know over a decade later I still looked at this person and I knew

00:13:43: I love this person still I wish I could stay I wish he would not be who he was so that I couldn't stay but.

00:13:53: It didn't work out that way.

00:13:55: Did I falter in trying to leave many times after the decision or at least the Consciousness that I was probably going to have to leave it took me,

00:14:06: months and actually.

00:14:09: If I think about it I knew for a couple of years at things weren't going so well so really it took me a couple of years to get out of this.

00:14:18: And in speaking with friends who had very very similar Dynamics in their relationships they told me the same you're not weak.

00:14:26: You're not a loser and you're not without value because you can't leave right away it's going to take a moment and it's okay,

00:14:35: and I want to say a little bit about why in a narcissistic relationship it's even more difficult to leave because narcissistic.

00:14:45: And the way we interact with them the way they allow the interaction to happen it's like a drug addiction.

00:14:53: Right they lift you so high up I mentioned this briefly my previous episode.

00:14:58: Oh my God there's nothing they won't do for you the surprise is.

00:15:03: The way they sort of envelop you physically and emotionally and your whole life how they just sort of take over

00:15:13: it is addictive to be around a narcissist at least when you have certain Dynamics in your own personality and hey

00:15:20: I wouldn't be talking about it if I didn't there's so much charge in the physical aspect of things in the conversations the drama the fighting and then maybe you make up in a really nice way after.

00:15:36: It's an addiction

00:15:37: and coming off an addiction as anybody who's ever been on one will tell you come on man you need a whole bunch of help you need systemic help you need systemic help emotional support you need every little,

00:15:51: aspect of your life to be planned and cared for because you're trying to come off of a drug.

00:16:01: So know that it is okay to have a relapse to fall back on to this person.

00:16:09: To be drawn to them physically even though maybe they've done of some of the most Unthinkable things to you or said the most impossible words to you.

00:16:19: And here you are you're still attracted oh my God how many types of losers are you you might be thinking or how weak are you or are you ever gonna leave this person.

00:16:30: In most cases from all the conversations and the inner work I've done I'm here to tell you you will

00:16:37: you will leave this person and if you have already please let me hear from you I would love to see what were some of the tools that you used to get out of there.

00:16:49: So knowing that you will falter and knowing that it's okay and that you will be successful in the end.

00:16:56: It's very important I want to get to this one in a very careful way this next one if you are being threatened.

00:17:04: This can sort of up the ante a lot here and again if there's physical danger if you're threatened in a really scary way

00:17:13: please refer back to what I said at the beginning there are people who can help their professional organizations and all sorts of systems in place to help you and I'm not specifically not talking about that kind of danger here

00:17:27: but I had been threatened,

00:17:30: many times that they would just come back to the apartment that they would publish pictures of me in a compromising way and there were all these threats.

00:17:41: So I looked at precedent and I looked at this person very clean I said has he threatened me before or she and did they actually do that.

00:17:51: And if the president shows that they didn't then chances are very high that they won't do it this time either and let's say even if they have.

00:18:01: Compromising information about you or they threatened to come back

00:18:05: maybe they even threatened that they won't leave they just won't leave the apartment in the first place all these things there are ways to get out of there and too,

00:18:17: to really evaluate is this threat for real or is this just a bluff like it's been so many times before

00:18:24: in my particular situation you have to know your own

00:18:28: you're the one who's with this person not me but in my mind I knew these were empty threats he wasn't going to do that he might have been you know mean and and all sorts of things but I knew he

00:18:40: didn't really want to go down that road that was for my case.

00:18:46: Might be different for you so knowing when a thread is an empty threat or just a bluff and knowing when it's real a very important tools to have when this thing ends.

00:19:00: And speaking of important tools here's where your friends and a plan can be really really helpful so what I did.

00:19:09: Is I spoke to some of my.

00:19:13: Savviest friends there were those who helped me emotionally and they're really important to but what I really needed now were strategists I needed friends,

00:19:22: who knew sit if you will who knew

00:19:25: how to take actionable steps because I was so emotional and scared to of ending this relationship of being without this person that I sort of fell into some bit of a freeze mode like a deer in the headlights kind of situation so I talked.

00:19:40: Two or three friends who were just really able to stay very very rational and sober in their advice which was exactly what I needed so if you have friends

00:19:50: who can

00:19:50: not to support you emotionally but who can put into place an action plan and who can be there physically with an apartment with a lawyer with a job whatever it is like.

00:20:04: Real manifesting sort of steps that's who you want to call now because this is who you need to keep a clear head to keep your wits about you and thank

00:20:15: God I had these kinds of friends thank you ladies you know who you are oh and guys they help me too by the way to really have these people on your side because you

00:20:25: we'll need them to make your plans a realistic thing that you can actually do and then.

00:20:33: Stick to that plan yes I said you are going to falter possibly and you might but keep returning to the plan refine it.

00:20:42: Fine tune it see what else does it need where am I not feeling the strength that I will need for this step and where can I get that strength where can I get that support and go for it spend the money if you need to this is not the time to save

00:20:57: money or at least not all of it but to actually just to get away first is the most important step.

00:21:03: So get those friends on board get that kind of specific rational help as much as you can.

00:21:10: And my very last one possibly the most important of all.

00:21:16: Is to be very gentle yes with yourself and more than anything else I'm begging you I beseech you forgive yourself.

00:21:25: You can forgive the guy the gala later whatever there's a lot of people out there who can help you with that but for me the most important thing is to forgive yourself,

00:21:35: that this relationship is ending or that you were in it in the first place

00:21:39: or that you didn't handle it well and that you kept falling you kept faltering whatever it is that you feel is really.

00:21:47: In acceptable about you about how you handle this situation how you went through it forget about it forgive yourself.

00:21:55: If you had been able to do better whatever better means by the way in this context then you would have done better if you had known better I remember Elizabeth Gilbert saying this one time then you would have done better but you didn't know better so you didn't do better,

00:22:09: what ever you're doing it now or you did it now and that's what counts.

00:22:16: I know that when you leave I think many relationships they feel this way but especially when there was this narcissistic sort of dynamic in place you've been through your own little personal War.

00:22:29: You are going to have wounds.

00:22:31: And it's going to hurt like an MF you need time to heal and you might need a lot of time whatever a lot means for you it took me.

00:22:41: Almost two years to understand what had happened to me just to understand what had happened to me because I was in shock.

00:22:50: Over the whole thing for so long that I couldn't begin to process but never mind grieving The Grieving sort of would come in and out but it takes time to heal.

00:22:59: To walk away from the battlefield and to not know who won because.

00:23:05: The truth is nobody really can win in this kind of situation and the only victory that is may be tangible and that certainly certainly becomes sweet as the time goes by is that you did leave you managed.

00:23:20: And you are going to be okay maybe you already are I know I am so I know that it can be done.

00:23:28: So that was a lot of information I think and.

00:23:35: I hope it's useful to you I hope that you were able to relate to some of the things.

00:23:42: I said here it's an interesting topic it's a serious one and I just want to say in conclusion that.

00:23:49: You definitely will want all the help you can get so don't be shy don't be ashamed about reaching out and asking for it.

00:23:59: All right looking forward to your feedback here I hope that you're doing well in this very very strange time.

00:24:07: Music.